Ok, then let me ask you if you agree with the following verses.
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear."
1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,"
You doubt all you want. Christians call him God
I doubt that's true. And I don't capitalize god. I capitalize Yahweh, because that's his name. But god is a generic term used to describe any deity, like "man."
First God is capitalize and no I don't pick choose my morality. We follow the whole at my church
Oh right, god changed his mind on morality. Well children that curse their parents are to be stoned to death as Jesus says in Matthew 15. So do you say that you obey all of Jesus' commands? All of them? I doubt it. You'd be in prison if you did. So I don't presume to know you, but I do presume to know that you pick and choose your morals from the Bible like EVERY other Christian because I have never met one who didn't, ever.
First do not presume to know me. I don't know you, you don't know me. Second with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the old law was voided and a new law was created under Jesus Christ. Christian follow the New Testament. Testament meaning Covenant so Old Covenant under Moses and New Covenant under Christ
God has also commanded that we kill homosexuals, witches and people who worship other gods too, so lets not pretend that all the Bible says is a bunch of wishy-washy articles of love.
And our universe won't die for hundreds of billions of years. That's a lot farther away than tomorrow. So there's no need to pretend like the world's going to end soon - that's what foolish Christians believe. And eating, drinking and being merry aren't bad things, they're good things. Do them in moderation and no one gets hurt.
If Craig's faith is reasonable, then by implication everyone else's whose faith differs from his is unreasonable. That's what I meant. Basing beliefs on reason and logic is a good thing, that's why no one actually lives according to the bible's harmful "morals" anymore. Including you.
First i don't know what it you mean by That implies that all other interpretations of religion are unreasonable. And second we base our believes on reason and logic
That implies that all other interpretations of religion are unreasonable. What matters to me is whether reason conquers faith, if the two are ever in conflict.
I believe in both Reason and Faith this why this site is called Reasonable Faith. I'm already guided by science and faith guides me too
You see how serious people are taking Dawkins now
The decline in US religiosity couldn't be any better. I love the fact that we are moving toward a more secular society. It will be better for politics and that can translate to a better economic agenda, better on social issues and a better less Israeli-sided foreign policy. It boils down to this: what should we use when dealing with the many problems and struggles that our nation and the world must face - reason and science, or religion and faith?
It seems obvious to me that the former are better methods that can be employed when dealing with problems and a more secular society will better allow this to happen.
I live in the Flemish speaking part of Belgium, ahugely secular country by now. Looking at our past decline I have a few remarksand maybe even advice for your American situation. Since English is not mynative tongue I hope to make my message as clear as possible.
In Belgium almost everybody was catholic until 1950.Offcourse there was an influential minority of organized atheists but theirnumbers remained rather few. The connection you're mentioning between economicgrowth and the decline of the mainline churches is undeniably true. From the1950's onward my country has seen a tremendous economic growth, accompanied byever increasing individualism. Individualism is not bad per se but theindividualism Flanders (the Dutch speaking part of Belgium) saw was an individualismdirected against every form of institution. Although the loss of faith inchristian institutions had been most apparent, you can also observe aremarkable loss of faith in our (excellent) school system, our legel system andeven our whole state system.
Your remark on political consequences is alsoremarkable because we've seen in Flanders that many voters gradually turnedtheir back on the christian-democrat party (before CVP, now CD&V) in favorof the socialist or liberal party. This was at least at first. Last two decadeswe’ve seen that voters very quickly lost faith in all traditional politicalparties in favor of first the Flemish interest (a far right political party)and now in favor of the N-VA. Surveys conclude these voters are not so muchinterested in the political program of a party but they usually simply voteagainst traditional parties.
I must admit, this loss of faith in institutions andchurches was partly fed by the reactions of these institutions and churches. Theysaw what was happening and instead of believing in themselves, they gave in tothe public. What I mean by this is churches and others downplayed the messageand focused on the medium. The catholic church in Flanders in every way triedto be ‘modern’ to appeal to people, it didn’t work. Very few efforts were madeto defend the message against attacks from outside. Only very recently thewinds are starting to change and the Flemish catholic church is starting tospeak out more bluntly. Our excellent archbishop msgr. Léonard is a goodexample and our pope Benedict 16 is too. On top of all the catholic church hasseen some huge scandals during the last years but I think the reaction on thesescandals is more a sign of the deeply secular country we’ve become.
My advice to you,Americans is this: Don’t let the decline tempt you to forget the message. The mainreason for this decline is not the message but the changed mentality and neglectingthe message in the hope off convincing more people only makes things worse. Thingsprobably will get worse before they will get better but this does not mean youshouldn’t respond to criticism from outside. Dr. Craig, among others, hasproven that our faith surely is defendable and in time maybe we can turn thingsaround.
Greetings from Flanders,
When you mean "we" I doubt you are speaking for the majority of atheists. Most educated atheists believe in the strong possibility of extraterrestrial life like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Victor Stenger, etc.
It seems like we have two options.
A) Everyone was created by God as a special child of God. Moreover, God has commanded us to love each other (even our enemies) as our selves because of the great value God has placed on each of us.B) We should compete with others because naturally only the fittest survive. We should be kind to those who help us and oppose those who oppose us.
On a day to day basis, which mindset will lead to more selfishness?
A) God has created us for the purpose of a relationship with Him. A healthy relationship is a beautiful journey, as we see with husbands and wives in healthy marriages. Not only are we called to develop such a relationship with God but to point others towards Him also so they can know the joy we have.B) We live in a decaying and dying universe. While we are here we can make up our own purpose but in the end it doesn't really matter. So let's just eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.
Which mindset is more nihilistic?
I take it by "you" you mean humanity. If you have evidence of other life in other places besides Earth, bring it forth, since atheists are so keen on the empirical Otherwise, we're left to believe that this Universe is ours.
"Christianity is a great check on the selfishness and nihilism "
On the contrary, what can be more sell-centered and selfish than the idea that the entire Universe was created with you in mind, and you are God's special child? Religion is actually a safe Haven for the selfish and self-centered, on the one hand, and the insecure, immature, and cowardly, on the other (God loves you, looks after you, and will make sure everything turns out well in the end).
"Religious humility" is clearly an oxymoron. Like an "Evangelical Intellectual", by the way.
As for nihilism, I think Nietzsche was right on target when he referred to Christianity, Islam (and even Buddhism) as "The Great Nihilistic Religions", because of their "other-worldliness", and general contempt for this life and everything of this world.
You claim to be an agnostic, but you still haven't escaped the religious mindset. Sadly, that's also true of most atheists.
Christianity is a great check on the selfishness and nihilism at risk of being fostered in a society founded on individualism. Tocqueville deeply admired America's religiosity in light of this, and I couldn't agree more with him (and I'm an agnostic).
Predicted by Soren Kierkegaard in the 19th century.
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