Author Topic: Who won?  (Read 11687 times)

lucious

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Re: Who won?
« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2016, 10:30:27 PM »
That would not be magic.


Magic is a perjorative in place of any substantive argument. It is a term of abuse.

Magic refers to things which are intrinsically unintelligible. Craigs argument would entail that an immaterial, personal Creator brought matter into existence. If his argument entails it, following from the premises, it must happen.


It does not matter if we have no idea of how or why it happens, only that it does. Spacetime bending through matter is one thing we know happens, without knowing why. It is mind boggling and inexplicable yet it still happens.

Interest12345

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Re: Who won?
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2016, 05:52:46 AM »
I honestly don't understand why so many atheists consider this to be Craig's big debate loss. There are many atheists who have done a much better job in debating Craig in my opinion. Arif Ahmed, Peter Millican, Keith Parsons, Walter Sinnott-Armstrong, Austin Dacey, Doug Jesseph, Raymond Bradley, and most of all Shelly Kagan.

Carroll was pretty good, but his performance against Craig is HIGHLY overrated by atheists. I watched the debate when it was first aired live, and honestly, I thought that Craig had won.

lucious

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Re: Who won?
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2016, 10:25:51 PM »
Atheists hyperbolise everything, I know.

Carroll carried himself through charisma and confidence, not substantive argument. Of course, the former count for a lot in debate.

Study the transcript and it tells a different story. Carroll threw a lot out there which was difficult to counter in short time, but mostly nothing Craig has not addressed before.

Unfortunately, people rarely scrutinize debates this way. If someone they already agree with delivers something with confidence, they lap it up without a shred of scrutiny.

ApnaaGhar

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Re: Who won?
« Reply #78 on: January 24, 2017, 02:34:24 AM »
Carroll won this debate I had seen this

lucious

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Re: Who won?
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2017, 09:54:18 PM »
Carroll won this debate I had seen this

He actually didn't.

Bill McEnaney

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Re: Who won?
« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2017, 03:40:40 PM »
I watched the debate months ago, so I've forgotten too much detail about it.  But it seemed to me that Carroll made only one strong objection to Craig's case.  He quoted Guth to show that WLC had misinterpreted the BGVT.

lucious

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Re: Who won?
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2017, 06:29:10 AM »
I watched the debate months ago, so I've forgotten too much detail about it.  But it seemed to me that Carroll made only one strong objection to Craig's case.  He quoted Guth to show that WLC had misinterpreted the BGVT.

Actually, Craig didn't misinterpret the theorem at all. It was quite a juvenile stunt on Carrolls behalf (Hey, look, these cosmologists are actually my friends and not his!).

What Guth thinks, is that the theorem does not completely describe all of physical reality.