Author Topic: Did Jesus fulfill The Messianic prophecies ?  (Read 1568 times)

Christine

  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Did Jesus fulfill The Messianic prophecies ?
« on: December 13, 2015, 04:54:01 AM »
Yesterday I had an Interesting discussion with a jewish friend of mine and he told me that Jesus couldn't have been The Messiah because he didnt fulfill the messianic prophecies:
The Messiah is supposed to accomplish :

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies, so I countered that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.


What do you think about this ?

Nefalim

  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Did Jesus fulfill The Messianic prophecies ?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2016, 12:50:39 AM »
This is an argument that non-Messianic Jews use.  The general response is explaining the "valleys of prophecy".  The prophets saw the mountain tops of the first and second coming and missed the valley of the Church Age.  Not really my favorite, but it is at least possible.
Hosea 2:23 seems to describe the situation in which we find ourselves here in the Church Age.

I came across an interesting viewpoint while listening to a conservative podcast.  The man is Orthodox Jewish and described a belief some hold to that asserts the Messiah came secretly in 1948, or a little before and established the revived state of Israel.  I never heard that one and found it interesting.  I also find it absurd, but interesting.

Some people have better responses, but this has been the response I have seen offered to the Jewish argument concerning the Messiah not having a Second Coming. 

GordonTubbs

  • Posts: 1359
    • View Profile
Re: Did Jesus fulfill The Messianic prophecies ?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 03:45:38 PM »
The real irony is that Jews will use the Old Testament to deny Jesus as the Messiah, but this is the same Old Testament that requires them to build a Temple... to have a priesthood... to perform sacrifices and keep all ordinances set forth in the Torah. Under whose authority are they dispensing with the Law?

Regent University, Master of Divinity Student
Inquirer in the Presbyterian Church (USA), Seeking Ordination
US Navy (Active 2004-2009, Reserves 2012-Present)

Atheist in Louisiana

  • Posts: 2631
  • I ain't afraid of no ghost!
    • View Profile
    • Atheist in Louisiana
Re: Did Jesus fulfill The Messianic prophecies ?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2016, 05:23:24 PM »
Jews use the Tanakh, not the OT.  A minor quibble since they are basically copies of each other.

They use that book to show that Jesus didn't fulfill the prophecies, so isn't their messiah.  They aren't dispensing with any law.  They are not accepting the additions Christianity introduced to their religion.  It's their religion.  Someone else claiming that their religion was fulfilled by this guy named Jesus doesn't mean they have to accept it.
Had the magazine not published these cartoons, they would not have been specifically targeted.
Consequences, AiL, consequences. - Jenna Black

Hey, if you want to, I'm more than ok with it.  :)  I love the attention. - Questions11

GordonTubbs

  • Posts: 1359
    • View Profile
Re: Did Jesus fulfill The Messianic prophecies ?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2016, 09:45:59 PM »
I'm aware of the Tanakh (I own and read one). Some of the Jewish counter-apologetics I've come across specifically use the OT for more credibility against Christians ("see! even your own text denies Jesus is the Messiah" type stuff). But that's a moot point. The irony is that modern Judaism is basically Christianity without Jesus. Jews believe that they are saved through faith, that despite their inability to make sacrifices at the Holy Temple in Jerusalem (because there is no Temple), other forms of sacrifice are offered instead (prayers, offerings, feasts, etc.).

One might suspect, that if God is all knowing and knew the Temple would be destroyed, that he would prepare his Chosen People by giving them a new prophet to follow (as God had consistently done with 48 prophets and 7 prophetesses through history), because that's what God does. Theologically, prophets read and interpret scripture for their generation and proclaim God's word and provide direction for God's people. If one can build a sufficient case that Jesus Christ was a legitimate Prophet, then one must accept Christ's interpretation of the scriptures and his own prophecies for God's people living in his time period. These interpretations paint Jesus as the Messiah, and the Kingdom of Heaven as the "state" of Israel.

I'm not trying to convince you of the fact, rather just provide an anecdotal Christian response to Jewish counter-apologetics. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 09:48:06 PM by GordonTubbs »
Regent University, Master of Divinity Student
Inquirer in the Presbyterian Church (USA), Seeking Ordination
US Navy (Active 2004-2009, Reserves 2012-Present)

Dogbyte

  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Did Jesus fulfill The Messianic prophecies ?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2016, 09:36:45 AM »
Yesterday I had an Interesting discussion with a jewish friend of mine and he told me that Jesus couldn't have been The Messiah because he didnt fulfill the messianic prophecies:
The Messiah is supposed to accomplish :

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies, so I countered that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.


What do you think about this ?

I would suggest a study on the types of covenants you find in the OT, unilateral and bilateral. In my opinion, if you enumerate all the promises and then note whether or not they are one sided, or contingent upon a person or people, then you can form a better understanding of what happened to unfulfilled Messianic prophesies. In fact,  I would say that there are very few unilateral promises given in the OT (like to Abraham), most of them are two-sided (ie... people of Israel...if/then). In my experience, be careful when talking about the bilateral covenants with most protestants or jews, its easy to get into arguments about modern day Israel and the people thereof, and that whole ball of wax. Its not a small subject or study, so its best to study up the context first instead of letting it get off topic on whether or not you are bashing modern day Israel, which is not what you want to convey.