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Messages - lapwing

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Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« on: August 28, 2013, 04:11:43 PM »
+1 for the exegesis, veka

Choose Your Own Topic / The March on Washington: "we shall overcome"!
« on: August 28, 2013, 12:18:59 PM »
I just found this image of the programme - there were many other speakers but no women speakers (bar one tribute to Rosa Parks et al) except as singers.!

I'd be interested to hear what people think about Martin Luther King 50 years on from this.

Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Who's Afraid of the Truth?
« on: August 28, 2013, 11:50:58 AM »
I've added an applaud for you, Rossi. GtG is in the "nervous 90s"!

Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Asking God for a sign
« on: August 28, 2013, 11:45:33 AM »
Os Guinness wrote a book titled "Doubt" which I found very helpful in the past.
He has written a more recent book on this subject:

Listening to the UK radio 4 news just now it all sounds like Iraq mark II. I sincerely hope not!

Choose Your Own Topic / Re: On Poetry
« on: August 28, 2013, 11:17:19 AM »
You surprise me Rossi!  ???

A verse for KJVOers?

Choose Your Own Topic / Re: On Poetry
« on: August 28, 2013, 12:55:18 AM »
Hi Language-Gamer,

Here's a well known poem about the post enlightenment loss of religious faith leaving man on his own to fend for himself so to speak. I think the author is bewailing this:

Dover Beach by Matthew Arnold, 1867

The sea is calm tonight,
 The tide is full, the moon lies fair
 Upon the straits; on the French coast the light
 Gleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand,
 Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay.
 Come to the window, sweet is the night air!
Only, from the long line of spray
 Where the sea meets the moon-blanched land,
 Listen! you hear the grating roar
 Of pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling,
 At their return, up the high strand,
 Begin, and cease, and then again begin,
 With tremulous cadence slow, and bring
 The eternal note of sadness in.

Sophocles long ago
 Heard it on the Aegean, and it brought
 Into his mind the turbid ebb and flow
 Of human misery; we
 Find also in the sound a thought,
 Hearing it by this distant northern sea.

The Sea of Faith
 Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
 Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.
 But now I only hear
 Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
 Retreating, to the breath
 Of the night wind, down the vast edges drear
 And naked shingles of the world.

Ah, love, let us be true
 To one another! for the world, which seems
 To lie before us like a land of dreams,
 So various, so beautiful, so new,
 Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
 Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
 And we are here as on a darkling plain
 Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
 Where ignorant armies clash by night.

Hi zclub3,
Thanks for this - and putting it so clearly. In one of bskeptic's references, David is being held up as an example to another king: nothing to do with eternal life after physical death.
Hebrews ch 11 clearly shows that David is one of the OT saints because of his faith not his obedience to "commandments". Also it is not clear whether David is being commended for his obedience to the Torah, or to specific commandments from God that David was given in and for his  lifetime.

Hi Jason,
You could try the two IVP Apollos Introductions to the OT and NT by Tremper Longman, Ray Dillard/D Carson, Doug Moo. They have plenty of refs

For more detail FF Bruce "The NT Documents - Are they reliable?" and "A Survey of OT Introduction" by Gleason Archer

though there's likely to be much more than that.

Hope they work for you.

Choose Your Own Topic / Re: ta-ta for now
« on: August 27, 2013, 04:33:45 AM »
Best wishes for the future.

Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Kierkegaard
« on: August 25, 2013, 11:56:16 PM »
There is a free Coursera course on Kierkegaard starting Oct 7:

then you look at Christianity and it arguably makes a mockery of the Hebrew Bible. It's just not any sensible development of the message.
Personal opinion only with no evidence and using unnecessarily emotive language (italicised)

"made lower than angels" refers to the incarnation - God was made fully man. Do you agree that is what is meant.

"Old Testament (on its own) religion" is the basis of Judaism not Christianity, since Christianity is based on the OT and NT. Do you agree? So this explains your example with the book of Mormon. Christianity is not Mormonism and similarly Judaism is not Christianity.

You are quoting from Dt ch 30 out of context
I should have said "without any context". By quoting "This commandment that I'm giving you right now is definitely not too difficult for you" and ignoring the rest: "Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” you are deliberately ignoring the plain fact that this passage is about ease of access to the commandments.

And we know in the case of David that he kept the law
Of course we know that he didn't e.g. Uriah the Hittite, Bathsheba, eating the showbread.

What is its plain meaning? (James 2:10)
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Quote from: Barnes'_notes
For whosoever shall keep the whole law - All except the single point referred to. The apostle does not say that this in fact ever did occur, but he says that if it should, and yet a man should have failed in only one particular, he must be judged to be guilty. The case supposed seems to be that of one who claimed that he had kept the whole law. The apostle says that even if this should be admitted for the time to be true in all other respects, yet, if he had failed in any one particular - in showing respect to persons, or in anything else - he could not but be held to be a transgressor, The design of this is to show the importance of yielding universal obedience, and to impress upon the mind a sense of the enormity of sin from the fact that the violation of any one precept is in fact an offence against the whole law of God. The whole law here means all the law of God; all that he has required; all that he has given to regulate us in our lives.

It's a pity this went off topic isn't it? My hopefully on topic comments:

1. Getting the real truth is problematic with Iraqi WMD being the outstanding, but not unique example.

2. It's not a case of goodies v baddies i.e. cowboys wearing white or black hats. The Allawi sect is a minority in the region so if Assad loses power guess what happens next? It's a case of heads the people lose or tails the people lose. But in time there will be some kind of resolution and agreement but it probably won't last for very long e.g. N Ireland.

3. I have this strange idea that outsiders supplying the factions with more arms will lead to more deaths. Starve them of guns and bullets (are bullets made in Syria?) etc. and they'd be forced to fight each other with their bare hands - I think that would mean fewer deaths.

4. So a Christian response might be to support a move against the arms manufacturers who are supplying arms and profiteering. That includes suitable sanctions v Assad regime to reduce their capacity to kill and the use of UN weapons inspectors. Was Hans Blix the only person to emerge from Iraq with any credit?

I think that's a good summary. Adherents of Judaism do not recognise Jesus as Messiah - they regard His claim as false so I think that would make it heresy to them. Christians regard Jewish belief as incomplete but it is important to recognise that Judaism has developed since Jesus' day even if the Hebrew Bible has remained the same.

Well I'm no expert but ...

Analytic philosophy can be identified with Russell and Wittgenstein: Russell was British but Wittgenstein was Austrian - so that "continental" epithet is a bit misleading.

Continental philosophy has become a name for the study of existentialism, phenomenology, structuralism or post-structuralism. Analytical philosophy is identified with Frege, logical positivism, Wittgenstein's linguistic philosophy and the use of logic applied to philosophical problems.

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