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Messages - lapwing

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1531
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Does a Christian need a church?
« on: January 26, 2014, 04:18:24 PM »
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1532
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: 4000 year old tablet reveals Arks design.
« on: January 26, 2014, 12:28:42 PM »
I have no experience with marine engineering, but is there any reason that thing wouldn't spin like a top on the open water?   :o
It didn't have to plot a course though just float.

1533
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Does a Christian need a church?
« on: January 26, 2014, 05:13:48 AM »
Many evangelical churches don't allow divorced people to be pastors.

1534
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Does a Christian need a church?
« on: January 26, 2014, 04:03:39 AM »
Maybe.

But would you go to a church that preached heresy?
Or which declared you a heretic?
Or where the minister asked visitors to pray for his divorce?

Amazingly the wishy-washy Church of England held out against marrying divorced people longer than some nonconformist churches in the UK. It's been allowed from 2002 but individual priests/ministers have the right to refuse.

1535
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Jeremiah's New Covenant vs. Christianity
« on: January 25, 2014, 12:33:38 PM »
bskeptic,

Shorter Oxford Dictionary:

"Designating or pertaining to a sense or interpretation of a text, orig. esp. the Bible, obtained by taking words in their primary or customary meaning, and applying the ordinary rules of grammar, without mysticism, allegory, or metaphor"

For example the literal intepretation of Canticles is a description of the love between a man and a woman; the metaphorical interpretation is the love between God and the Church/Israel. However the metaphorical intepretation conveys a literal or (I prefer) real truth: that God loves the church and human love is a foreshadowing of that love. There is reality behind the metaphor.

I thought one of your sources was pursuing a worrying political as well as theological agenda:
Quote
the consistent use of the grammatical-historical system yields the interpretative conclusion, for example, that Israel always and only refers to national Israel.
This is a mistake: "For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children.." Paul uses "Israel" with two meanings here.

Of course, one can create novel definitions or even new words to suit your purpose, or go searching for people who do this. I prefer to use dictionary definitions, or explain myself if I employ novel definitions. You did not do this. So you could define ordinary-literal and figurative-literal but I prefer to use straightforward dictionary definitions wherever possible, rather than clumsy and confusing redefinitions.

Nothing in your post related the idea of literal/non-literal to sensus plenior

1536
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: 4000 year old tablet reveals Arks design.
« on: January 25, 2014, 10:05:17 AM »
Frodo didn't destroy the ring. Gollum took it from him and then fell into the lake of fire! I saw it in the cinema.  ;)

If you have approached the text with proper hermeneutics, it would be clear that Gollum was just an allegory, a representation of Frodo's inner struggle.

Haha I never thought of that though I think conservative Tolkienites would disagree. Sounds like a Ph D thesis but it's probably been done already.

1537
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: 4000 year old tablet reveals Arks design.
« on: January 25, 2014, 06:59:56 AM »
Frodo didn't destroy the ring. Gollum took it from him and then fell into the lake of fire! I saw it in the cinema.  ;)

1538
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Does a Christian need a church?
« on: January 25, 2014, 04:46:27 AM »
With baptism it's worth noting that the command is for the people doing the baptizing, not the candidates. I think this is right since new believers aren't expected to know much. However, they do need to agree to it rather than being frog-marched to the nearest water body. I went to baptismal classes.

1539
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: A showing off game
« on: January 25, 2014, 04:40:44 AM »
I've read Dune

The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan
The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky
On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin


1540
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: 4000 year old tablet reveals Arks design.
« on: January 25, 2014, 04:34:34 AM »
One thing it does prove is that having a long beard is essential for being an archaeologist:

Irving Finkel


Flinders Petrie (father of archaeology)


Harrison Ford doesn't fit the bill!

1541
I talk about Jesus (good point Archsage!) in church housegroup and as often as I can in a philosophy group (mostly unbelievers) and to family and close friends (but not labouring it). I'm not one for taking opportunities in everyday life - mostly 'cos I'm not quick thinking.

e.g. in a shop
Me "that's interesting the change was 3 pound and one penny - did you know that there is one god in three persons" I shrink from this kind of thing.

Shop assistant "pardon" or "just wait there while I call the police"!

In this forum we've already crossed the hurdle of lack of interest. People wouldn't be here unless they were interested.

1542
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: 4000 year old tablet reveals Arks design.
« on: January 25, 2014, 04:14:55 AM »
It's important to note that according to biblical dating Noah lived around 2350 BC i.e. >4kya and so before the dating of this tablet - so it could be an after the fact description. Also Noah did not live in Israel/Palestine but most likely lived in Mesopotamia - a likely location for the flood is the Arabian Gulf area around modern Basra. Abraham could have brought knowledge of the story with him or it could have been known in Egypt by the time of Moses.

1543
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Does a Christian need a church?
« on: January 24, 2014, 05:27:15 PM »
It's not a question of what is "most important" but what God clearly commands in his word

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. Heb 10;24, 25 NIV

There is also the example of the believers portrayed in the NT. Note that the Bible does not mandate a particular frequency of meeting - that can lead to attendeeism - making a god out of attending meetings.

1544
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Question about the Gospel of John and "I am"
« on: January 24, 2014, 03:50:56 PM »
Jem,

In the sentence:
"From Stratford came William Shakespeare over all others, the playwright blessed with unsurpassed writing talent."
who is meant by the word "playwright"?

A simple question requiring a straighforward answer. Can you give a straightforward answer?

1545
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Question about the Gospel of John and "I am"
« on: January 24, 2014, 03:46:36 PM »
As jebejon noted in Rom 9:5 "blessed" εὐλογητὸς is a nominative singular ADJECTIVE. It's not a verb whose subject is God but an adjective describing Jesus.

Similarly in "being over all God", "being" is a participle describing Jesus. A participle acts like an adjective (or adverb) that is derived from a verb.

Quote from: Wikipedia
A participle is a form of a verb that is used in a sentence to modify a noun or noun phrase, and thus plays a role similar to that of an adjective or adverb

"Christ being over all God" is a clear and unequivocal statement that Jesus is God.

Quote from: Metzger-Aland
The interpretation that refers the passage to Christ suits the structure of the sentence,
whereas the interpretation that takes the words as an asyndetic doxology to God the Father is
awkward and unnatural

Quote
One clear statement from scripture lapwing
The problem is that with you, Jem, we're not testing whether the Bible states that Jesus is God, we're testing your ability to produce contorted counterarguments.
According your "religion", Jesus is not God so you will refuse to hear any argument that says that He is. This leads you to try to turn adjectives into verbs and to ignore basic rules of both English and Greek grammar. You behave like a loyal worker at Big Brother's Ministry of "Truth" (an ironic misnomer of course).

"A (wo)man hears what (s)he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdP3nZMZQbs

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