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Messages - lapwing

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1531
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 09, 2016, 11:26:50 AM »
Hmm, I see you've added some quotation marks that weren't in my post!

backtracking:
" War is inevitable" - actually "wars" not "war". Jesus wasn't saying any particular war is inevitable

"Either way, why do you think Christians should try and stop what God says must happen?" in context means you don't think Christians should try to stop wars i.e. to be peace makers: contradicting the Bible.
So you think that Christians shouldn't participate in peace talks. Hmmph! (It is a logical consequence of what I've quoted)

1532
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 09, 2016, 10:55:18 AM »
Quote
Where is it said that Christians are to act in this world
You haven't explained why it's ok to treat ill people but not ok to make peace.

When did I say it's not ok to make peace?  Treating the ill does create peace.

By saying let's just let wars happen. (Do you work in the massive US Defence Industry?)
You might consider changing your #62 as I changed the post you're quoting (before you quoted me).

1533
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 09, 2016, 10:46:46 AM »
Quote
Where is it said that Christians are to act in this world
You haven't explained why it's ok to treat ill people but not ok to make peace.

Can't help but notice you ignored the question and instead made a personal attack.

I've changed it. You're the one who is doing the ignoring.

1534
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 09, 2016, 10:40:02 AM »
Quote
Where is it said that Christians are to act in this world
You haven't explained why it's ok to treat ill people but not ok to make peace.

1535
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 09, 2016, 10:00:45 AM »
Quote from: Animated_Dirt
why do you think Christians should try and stop what God says must happen?
This laissez-faire attitude to war is unchristian e.g. "blessed are the peacemakers" and "love your enemies" to keep it to the basic soundbite level.
 
Christians are called to act in this world. Why not extend this to medicine - why bother treating ill people since we all die in the end. Let 'em die and we can spend the money on another shopping mall! (Note the 'em could be you, AD, at any time)

1536
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 09, 2016, 09:53:14 AM »
TheCross
Quote
THAT WAS NOT THE POINT, the point was, EVERY OTHER PERSON WHO IS NOT A MUSLIM IS NOT COMMANDED TO DO SO

I didn't say you haven't posted on taqiyya, I said you haven't shown it properly i.e. you haven't convinced me. Why do I have to accept everything you say (which your post is assuming)?

I don't accept that every Muslim is commanded to deceive non Muslims from the Koran.

"The 18 largest mass killings"
You're being very coy about the details here aren't you. Why are these different from the Holocaust, the 30 years war, the war between Britain and Spain, the slave trade, the invasions of the Americas and Australia etc?

1537
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 08, 2016, 06:14:56 PM »
Quote from: TheCross
In the qur'an, you have teachings about deception, how you should act and when you should act in a certain manner.

Yet despite your claimed knowledge of these things, you've failed to show this properly from the Koran

Quote
Do you think a muslim can be reliable? Sure, i would grant that, but how do you know if a muslim is reliable?
The same can be said of any and every human being, including you and me.

Quote
270 million people killed in a timespan of 1400 years,
and you actually give such stats credence. They're cooked up for ideological reasons, not out of any love of accuracy. Next you'll be saying that no Christian nation has ever gone to war against another!

1538
Quote from: TheCross
I never implied that the arabian peninsula was, at some point, 100% christian, that is an uncharitable read from your part and you know it.
It's based on your:
"Once upon a time, the arabian peninsula was CHRISTIAN"
You didn't say "partly Christian" you said "CHRISTIAN" with emphasis. That implies wholly Christian.

And I think you'll find some of the European invaders of America used the Bible to justify what they were doing e.g.

John Winthrop, 1629: “...the whole earth is the Lord's garden, and he hath given it to the sons of Adam to be tilled and improved by them. Why then should we stand starving here for the places of habitation, (many men spending as much labor and cost to recover or keep sometimes an acre or two of lands as would procure him many hundreds of acres, as good or better, in another place,) and in the mean time suffer whole countries, as profitable for the use of man, to lie waste without any improvement."
So why not help ourselves to this land, it's wasted on these ignorant savages (sound familiar!)

John Winthrop wrote to an English friend about the earlier arrival of the Pilgrims who spread diseases amongst the local Natives “the natives are neere all dead of the smalle Poxe, so as the Lord hathe cleared our title to what we posses"
Well at least the Smallpox saved us the trouble of fighting them - the Lord be praised!
(I wonder what the Lord actually thought)

1539
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 08, 2016, 09:13:30 AM »
TheCross,
Quote
Did i claim all muslims were evil?
Where did I say you claimed this?

Quote
why would you link those two links to prove that not all muslims are ISIS members?
because you wrote:
Quote
why US born muslims can, in the blink of an eye, turn on their whole life and lay domestic mayhem wherever they might be.
and
Quote
A muslim can not be trusted, not because all muslims are deceptive, no! But because you can not tell which muslims are genuine and which muslims are not.
and you ignored the fact that such statements can be made of non Muslims as well, especially Americans.
How many of the murderers who have killed people in US mass shootings were and weren't Muslims? How many were baptized Christians? Why are you picking on Muslims when everyone has the capability of doing wrong?
If you're so concerned about the threat of Muslims what about the threat of Americans to each other? I think Americans would be a lot safer if all current Americans were ejected from America and replaced by less violent people e.g. Japanese, Australians, Brits etc.

I'm very sorry if your family was affected by the Armenian massacres. The Turks are Muslims - obviously. But Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Genghis Khan, Mao weren't, but they all perpetrated mass murder as well. It's the mass murderers who are guilty, not some religious or ethnic group to which they belong. The UK is hardly guiltless either e.g. the slave trade, the Opium Wars etc. At the beginning of the 20th century weren't the Arabs fighting the Turks? Am I guilty of being a slave trader? (No I haven't benefited afaik, unlike our noble PM)

Quote
The idea that everyone should be judged on the basis of their actions and not their stances
But that is how legal systems work - otherwise we would need Orwell's Thought Police.

Did you look at the short video I linked?

1540
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 07, 2016, 10:14:09 PM »
Hi TheCross,

Well you're certainly not in the mood for irenic dialogue are you! Since you are so certain you are right why did you actually write the post above? This is a forum for irenic discussion not dogmatic statements of your own views and then daring people to respond so that you can attack them unmercifully - for that is clearly your intention.

I think you need to lighten up a bit!

The answer to your "How would you be able to distinguish a radical muslim from a moderate muslim?" is in the first minute or so in this comedy sketch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n326mhTfQr0

So rather than challenge your xenophobia head on I prefer simply to ask you what you think the answer is from the sketch. Laughter is the best medicine, and there are glimmers of hope in the midst of the misery:

http://national.deseretnews.com/article/6387/how-muslims-and-christians-are-working-together-to-help-refugees-in-iraq-and-syria.html

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Christian-Rabbi-Muslim-come-help-Syrian-refugees/story-29198982-detail/story.html

1541
On that basis (what Muslims did), Christianity is a conquering religion as well since Christians went a-conquering.

Nothing on whether the Arabian peninsular was ever entirely Christian as you implied?

1542
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Poll: Hillary Clinton Supporters.
« on: May 07, 2016, 06:17:51 PM »
Quote
He was asked about the recent swathe of incidents involving Russian military aircraft zooming at high speeds past U.S. navy vessels in European waters. The latest incident occurred when a Russian Su-27 plane did a barrel roll over a U.S. ship in the Baltic Sea last week.

“It just shows how low we’ve gone where they can toy with us like that,” Trump said, describing such scenarios as “terrible.” He insisted that the problem is Russia’s lack of respect for U.S. President Barack Obama.

Normally, an Obama—let’s say a president, because you want to make at least a call or two—but normally Obama would call up Putin and say, ‘Listen, do us a favor, don’t do that, get that maniac, just stop it.’ But we don’t have that kind of a president. He’s gonna be out playing golf or something,” Trump said. “But I don’t know, at a certain point, you can’t take it.”

"European waters" has no meaning in maritime law: they're either international or national (within a certain distance of the coast). Last time I checked the Baltic was closer to Russia than America. Isn't this making a fuss about nothing for personal political gain? Is Trump saying he never plays golf or engages in any leisure activity, and he'll be chained to his desk in the oval office. That's not him at the moment is it!

1543
Quote from: bskeptic
But no one has a right to enter your country. Absolutely no one.
Did this apply to the European invasions of N and S America and Australia for instance. Or don't those cases count because they didn't have European style governments!

There's also a complete lack of charity in bskeptic's views.

It certainly applies to islamic followers from all eras.

Once upon a time, the arabian peninsula was CHRISTIAN.

What does that prove? Once upon a time there were several different nations in S America, then along came the Conquistadores and they were obliterated. Ah but that's alright because the Conquistadores were Christian!

I don't think there was any time that the Arabian peninsula was entirely Christian - there were Jews and pagans as well. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

1544
Quote from: bskeptic
But no one has a right to enter your country. Absolutely no one.
Did this apply to the European invasions of N and S America and Australia for instance. Or don't those cases count because they didn't have European style governments!

There's also a complete lack of charity in bskeptic's views.

1545
The above meme in lapwing's post contains an apocryphal quote from Trump.  According to snopes, Trump never said anything in People magazine about Republican voters being dumb or stupid, and no other reputable source for the quote has ever surfaced.

Apologies: I've removed it. I didn't know it was thought to be dubious.

It doesn't change the rest of my post.

I don't think perceptions of "smirking", or similar, with any candidate is the way to choose how to vote.

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