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General Discussion => Apologetics and Theology => Topic started by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 18, 2015, 11:46:30 pm

Title: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 18, 2015, 11:46:30 pm
I will play the skeptic. I refuse to accept the existence of potatoes. Please... try me. (I realize God is not as obvious as potatoes... though I do find it interesting how skepticism of a claim can be made to seem reasonable even if it clearly is not... not necessarily any specific claim)
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Keith_ on May 18, 2015, 11:52:47 pm
You potato deniers are delusional.
You can walk into your local grocery and see the empirical evidence of potatoes first hand.
-K
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 18, 2015, 11:54:33 pm
Define potato...
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Keith_ on May 19, 2015, 12:04:24 am
A potato is a root vegetable, the Solanum tuberosum. It is a small plant with large leaves. The part of the potato that people eat is a starchy tuber that grows under the ground.
Don't tell me you don't' know wat a potato is, idget.
-K

Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 12:08:12 am
Ad hom! A potato is not clearly defined, therefore potatoes don't exist. Some things people call potatoes are big and some are small. I disagree that we should lump them all together because the alleged potatoes are all different.  Furthermore, your appeal to supermarket is fallacious... just because you say they are there doesn't make it so and just because other people say they are there is an ad populum fallacy.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Trinity on May 19, 2015, 12:09:33 am
People have died (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_%28Ireland%29) in the name of potatoes, therefore potatoes poison everything.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 12:10:56 am
People have died (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_%28Ireland%29) in the name of potatoes, therefore potatoes poison everything.

Wikipedia is unreliable
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Keith_ on May 19, 2015, 12:18:54 am
Get educated Here's a scientific book link. Go ask your grocer for a potato, come back here when you've got your own potato. If you can't find one, I'll order you a bag on Amazon.

http://www.springer.com/life+sciences/plant+sciences/journal/12230
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: hereLiesThisTroper on May 19, 2015, 12:22:38 am
She turned me into a newt! I mean a potato!
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 12:23:27 am
You offer to order me round cylinders from the ground.... or are they more like spheres? There are other root vegetables and I consider the round ones different than the cylindrical ones. The problem is that you haven't meaningfully defined potatoes... I will click your link after I post this... but I bet they don't distinguish between the round and non round ones. P.s. if I drag this out long enough we will both be tired of it before anyone can admit they are wrong.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 12:25:01 am
Lol! The link... the potato association of america?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Trinity on May 19, 2015, 12:28:10 am
Potatoes are our distant cousins according to evolutionary biologists. Do you deny evolution, FNB?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 12:35:13 am
Potatoes are our distant cousins according to evolutionary biologists. Do you deny evolution, FNB?

I don't deny evolution I have a much less bold claim, I deny the existence of potatoes. Potato as a term is not clearly defined and biologists unwittingly accepted this distinction. Good thing science is always refining itself and I shall propose a refinement!
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Bertuzzi on May 19, 2015, 12:57:18 am
Potatoes don't exist because the Kalam commits the composition fallacy.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 19, 2015, 01:07:18 am
:::Takes a potato out of a basket, slices it, cooks it, and then proceeds to eat it:::

"Preach the gospel at all times -- If necessary, use words." -- Saint Francis of Assisi
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Questions11 on May 19, 2015, 01:08:13 am
I'm a potato solipsist.  All potatoes are really me.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Questions11 on May 19, 2015, 01:10:10 am
I am a potato:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PCBVoJHvB9A (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PCBVoJHvB9A)
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 01:10:23 am
:::Takes a potato out of a basket, slices it, cooks it, and then proceeds to eat it:::

"Preach the gospel at all times -- If necessary, use words." -- Saint Francis of Assisi

☺ though I disagree that what you have sliced is a potato. Potatoes do not exist.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 19, 2015, 01:14:49 am
:::Takes a potato out of a basket, slices it, cooks it, and then proceeds to eat it:::

"Preach the gospel at all times -- If necessary, use words." -- Saint Francis of Assisi

☺ though I disagree that what you have sliced is a potato. Potatoes do not exist.
That's your prerogative. You are free to watch me have a meal while you starve. All you need do is ask and I will share with you what I have.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Athi on May 19, 2015, 01:21:29 am
I quote to you from the book of the Two Towers:

"Sam: What we need is a few good taters.
Gollum: What's taters, precious? What's taters, eh?
Sam: *Po-tay-toes!* Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew... Lovely big golden chips with a nice piece of fried fish."

There, proof that potatoes (or 'taters' as they are called in some translations) are real!

(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/g_spiggott/potatowned.gif)



It would be a waste to not use this GIF in a potato based thread...
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 01:29:00 am
:-) though to be honest I am actually semi serious. Potatoes have not been shown to exist. All logical fallacies!
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: kurros on May 19, 2015, 01:44:47 am
It sounds like you dispute that a coherent category of objects known commonly as "potatoes" exists, but you aren't denying the existence of the actual objects that people call potatoes. Is that right?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 01:52:48 am
It sounds like you dispute that a coherent category of objects known commonly as "potatoes" exists, but you aren't denying the existence of the actual objects that people call potatoes. Is that right?

Both...  at least for now. The first is not meaningfully defined, the second ad populum
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: kurros on May 19, 2015, 01:58:38 am
It sounds like you dispute that a coherent category of objects known commonly as "potatoes" exists, but you aren't denying the existence of the actual objects that people call potatoes. Is that right?

Both...  at least for now. The first is not meaningfully defined, the second ad populum

The first is not philosophically interesting though, it is just a matter of the conventions of language. As for the second, do you mean to say you have never personally encountered an example of the physical object which humans conventionally label a potato? If so, then I accept that it is more reasonable for you to doubt that they exist than it is for me.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: neil on May 19, 2015, 02:48:54 am
I will play the skeptic. I refuse to accept the existence of potatoes. Please... try me. (I realize God is not as obvious as potatoes... though I do find it interesting how skepticism of a claim can be made to seem reasonable even if it clearly is not... not necessarily any specific claim)

The potato was made man and the potato dwelt among us in our children of 90's movies. Personally speaking though I do not subscribe to the anthropomorphised views of the one potato overlord.

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_S0ospEf3_VrK3TflNuwezZbI7x0l8hf23L1-JDCSqN-JcyvL2A)
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Rostos on May 19, 2015, 03:04:11 am
I will play the skeptic. I refuse to accept the existence of potatoes. Please... try me. (I realize God is not as obvious as potatoes... though I do find it interesting how skepticism of a claim can be made to seem reasonable even if it clearly is not... not necessarily any specific claim)

Which potato?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 19, 2015, 04:58:45 am
Are you guys honestly being serious here?  The quality of your ' potato skeptic' responses are appalling.  You sound more like you want to play a silly game than to make a genuine point.  Is this really true?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Questions11 on May 19, 2015, 05:00:01 am
Most here seem to have taken the OP as a joke thread.

I'm not sure that was the OPs intention, but it's hard not to respond flippantly to a thread about the non-existence of potatoes.

Why does this bother you, JB?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 06:23:22 am
It sounds like you dispute that a coherent category of objects known commonly as "potatoes" exists, but you aren't denying the existence of the actual objects that people call potatoes. Is that right?

Both...  at least for now. The first is not meaningfully defined, the second ad populum

The first is not philosophically interesting though, it is just a matter of the conventions of language. As for the second, do you mean to say you have never personally encountered an example of the physical object which humans conventionally label a potato? If so, then I accept that it is more reasonable for you to doubt that they exist than it is for me.

The first would allow me to succeed and claim there is no such thing as potatoes which is my goal. The second is that yes I havcen't ever seen them.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 06:25:37 am
Are you guys honestly being serious here?  The quality of your ' potato skeptic' responses are appalling.  You sound more like you want to play a silly game than to make a genuine point.  Is this really true?

I would like to make a genuine point. This sort of thing happens on this site it is just less obvious. It is not to point a finger at any one view. I don't consider my responses appaling at all, they are logical.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 19, 2015, 06:28:23 am
Quote
Most here seem to have taken the OP as a joke thread.

I'm not sure that was the OPs intention, but it's hard not to respond flippantly to a thread about the non-existence of potatoes.

Why does this bother you, JB?

This bothers me, because if serious, it is not being taken as such, and it seems like people here either really don't understand skeptics, or they are being very non-charitable in their attempt to portray one. 

f this is actually a joke, fine, but it is in really poor taste if it is a joke, because it is being done in a mocking tone, which doesn't usually make the best jokes.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 06:39:38 am
Quote
Most here seem to have taken the OP as a joke thread.

I'm not sure that was the OPs intention, but it's hard not to respond flippantly to a thread about the non-existence of potatoes.

Why does this bother you, JB?

This bothers me, because if serious, it is not being taken as such, and it seems like people here either really don't understand skeptics, or they are being very non-charitable in their attempt to portray one. 

f this is actually a joke, fine, but it is in really poor taste if it is a joke, because it is being done in a mocking tone, which doesn't usually make the best jokes.

This is actually not about skepticism as a philosophical view. It is about being overly skeptical about X. X could be anything, and any view... I think you are misunderstanding the intent of the thread.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: ReasonableRuben on May 19, 2015, 06:57:47 am
FNB, it seems that you are seriously trying to suggest that skepticism about God is analogous to skepticism about potatoes.

That's how I took the OP anyway. It kind of deteriorated as people thought you were joking, but it seems to me that you are serious here. Are you?

Do you think that atheists on this forum are skeptical about God in the same way that you were sleptical about potatoes in your OP?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 07:04:46 am
I keep pointing out (in my OP as well) that it wasn't about God skepticism. The God does not exist parallel is only because it is funny to put potatoes in there as it is topical for this site. This is one of my many threads about how reason can be tricky and misused if people aren't careful. I was partly joking though, yes.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 07:05:56 am
Reason can be misused for any view, theist or atheist... it isn't a shot at atheism.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 07:07:45 am
Also note that I edited my OP early on to point out that this isn't against any specific view
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: ReasonableRuben on May 19, 2015, 07:19:26 am
Thanks for the clarification, FNB.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 19, 2015, 07:23:30 am
Quote
I would like to make a genuine point. This sort of thing happens on this site it is just less obvious. It is not to point a finger at any one view. I don't consider my responses appealing at all, they are logical.

I was not necessarily calling your responses appalling, but rather the responses from people treating this as a joke (I thought they were seriously trying to represent a skeptic, I did not realize it to be a joke, although as I have said, if it is a joke, it is in poor taste as it isn't really fully, and it is kind of mocking).
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 19, 2015, 07:25:12 am
If you are serious though, I can take some time to explain potatoes, but I don't get the sense that you are.  It is actually worth my time to make a response explaining how we (and you) can know that potatoes exist ?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 07:31:02 am
Thanks for the clarification, FNB.

Sure! I hope my response didn't come across rude.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 07:54:49 am
I'm confused as to the purpose of this thread.  The joking responses from theists indicate that they are fully aware that it is extremely easy to demonstrate the existence of potatoes (I could just show you one).  In fact, they imply that the notion of having to rely on philosophical haggling to establish their existence is ridiculous.

But the issue with that is that it just highlights just how unobvious the existence of God is.  It is extremely easy to be sceptical of the existence of God, in complete opposition to the difficulty faced in being sceptical of potatoes...

This thread would have made sense if the theists posting were atheists... but they weren't :S
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 07:57:55 am
JB I agree that some of the responses weren't the best and I could see why you would be offended. (not that I am going to pass judgment on people as if I do everything perfect) As for potatoes you don't have to participate... it is partly comedy & part serious.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 19, 2015, 08:01:00 am
I'm confused as to the purpose of this thread.  The joking responses from theists indicate that they are fully aware that it is extremely easy to demonstrate the existence of potatoes (I could just show you one).  In fact, they imply that the notion of having to rely on philosophical haggling to establish their existence is ridiculous.

But the issue with that is that it just highlights just how unobvious the existence of God is.  It is extremely easy to be sceptical of the existence of God, in complete opposition to the difficulty faced in being sceptical of potatoes...

This thread would have made sense if the theists posting were atheists... but they weren't :S

If you look at the comments above this is not about God. I don't even recall if I had that in mind when I made the thread. Philosophers are notable for denying obvious things. No one defends that God is as obvious as potatoes.

Was just looking to have a little fun... it would be nice to tickle our sense of humor sometimes without taking ourselves too seriously.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Questions11 on May 19, 2015, 08:01:30 am
My response wasn't designed to offend anyone, except perhaps poke gentle fun at the OP and participate in the general humour that a thread about potatoes generates.  I apologise if JB was offended by my link or my comment about potato solipsism.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 08:09:45 am

If you look at the comments above this is not about God. I don't even recall if I had that in mind when I made the thread. Philosophers are notable for denying obvious things. No one defends that God is as obvious as potatoes.

Was just looking to have a little fun... it would be nice to tickle our sense of humor sometimes without taking ourselves too seriously.

Are philosophers notable for denying obvious things?  I mean, obvious in the sense of potatoes?

I mean yes, some philosophers do, in a sense, deny such things, but it's hardly a trend to my knowledge.  Also the responses to the thread, as well as it's location on this forum, certainly lead one to interpret it as relating to scepticism about God.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 19, 2015, 08:38:56 am
I find it hilarious that the atheists are offended...
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 08:43:20 am
I find it hilarious that the atheists are offended...

How very Christian of you to take pleasure in that.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 19, 2015, 08:58:04 am
I find it hilarious that the atheists are offended...

How very Christian of you to take pleasure in that.

Let it be known to all;  my Christianity often gets pushed aside by my sinfulness.

I find it comical and I laugh.  The fact that you then throw the above out...further establishes my reason for finding it hilarious.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 11:00:35 am

Let it be known to all;  my Christianity often gets pushed aside by my sinfulness.

I find it comical and I laugh.  The fact that you then throw the above out...further establishes my reason for finding it hilarious.

Finding it comical may well be part of your sinful nature, and perfectly expected within a Christian worldview.

Finding it comical, then feeling the desire (through what sounded like something akin to pride) to publish that information on a forum which should be bringing Christ to the forefront of your mind, and actually going through with that desire, is another thing.

There's slipping, then there's revelling in it at a time when you really have no excuse not to.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 19, 2015, 11:03:21 am

Let it be known to all;  my Christianity often gets pushed aside by my sinfulness.

I find it comical and I laugh.  The fact that you then throw the above out...further establishes my reason for finding it hilarious.

Finding it comical may well be part of your sinful nature, and perfectly expected within a Christian worldview.

Finding it comical, then feeling the desire (through what sounded like something akin to pride) to publish that information on a forum which should be bringing Christ to the forefront of your mind, and actually going through with that desire, is another thing.

There's slipping, then there's revelling in it at a time when you really have no excuse not to.

Yes it is true, I sometimes revel in my sinfulness...but that's because I am sinful and I completely OWN the fact.

I still find it comical and more so that you keep pointing out the obvious and already acknowledged.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 11:53:16 am

Yes it is true, I sometimes revel in my sinfulness...but that's because I am sinful and I completely OWN the fact.

I still find it comical and more so that you keep pointing out the obvious and already acknowledged.

I'm not sure that's really how you're supposed to go about this...
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 19, 2015, 12:04:05 pm

Yes it is true, I sometimes revel in my sinfulness...but that's because I am sinful and I completely OWN the fact.

I still find it comical and more so that you keep pointing out the obvious and already acknowledged.

I'm not sure that's really how you're supposed to go about this...

You mean in a thread about whether potatoes exist of not?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 12:33:19 pm

You mean in a thread about whether potatoes exist of not?

I mean in conduct with other people, especially in a situation where you are both actively reminded of, and in a position of being representative of, Christ.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Trinity on May 19, 2015, 12:41:57 pm
From the Message Bible:

17 These hard times are small potatoes compared to the coming good times, the lavish celebration prepared for us. 18 There's far more here than meets the eye. The things we see now are here today, gone tomorrow. But the things we can't see now will last forever.

2 Corinthians 4:17-18.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 19, 2015, 12:54:20 pm

You mean in a thread about whether potatoes exist of not?

I mean in conduct with other people, especially in a situation where you are both actively reminded of, and in a position of being representative of, Christ.

I represent the belief in "potatoes" in this thread.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 01:27:58 pm

I represent the belief in "potatoes" in this thread.

Even if it were true that you don't represent Christ in this thread (it isn't), that doesn't negate the rest of what I said.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Jonathan G. on May 19, 2015, 01:37:37 pm
I potato. Therefore, I am.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Questions11 on May 19, 2015, 01:38:46 pm
This thread needs to die now.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Jonathan G. on May 19, 2015, 01:41:09 pm
I find it hilarious that the atheists are offended...

How very Christian of you to take pleasure in that.


Everyone is or has been a hypocrite. No? That doesn't make it okay of course, but neither does it mean I'm a good person if somehow I'm not a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 19, 2015, 02:21:34 pm

I represent the belief in "potatoes" in this thread.

Even if it were true that you don't represent Christ in this thread (it isn't), that doesn't negate the rest of what I said.

If we were to meet and be friends, you'd find me the same on this forum as I am in person.  I don't apologize for my short-comings when there is nothing to apologize for.  I find it hilarious that a thread that from the OP is somewhat for fun and serious, that the atheists are offended by the apparent parroting of atheist speak in things dealing with God.

We must be willing to laugh at ourselves too.

Here's a joke for the Adventists.


St. Peter is manning the pearly gates and a believer approaches to enter.
St. Peter greets him, "Welcome to Heaven."
"Thank you sir, I'm very happy to be here!" says the believer.
"Well, come on in." says Peter.
"The music is pretty loud, isn't it." says the believer.
"Yes, the Pentecostals have set up their area just over there with their bands and singers praising all day long, every day."
"Oh, well it sounds heavenly."
"Yes, we like it very much."
"That cathedral over there is very beautiful." says the believer
"Yes, those are our Catholic friends." says Peter  "You know them, they love their large cathedral and their religious images with their solemn services.  We put them a fair distance from the Pentecostals so that the loud music doesn't disturb their sensitive ears."
They continued to walk as St. Peter showed the believer the beauty of heaven, the people and all it has to offer.
After walking what seemed an hour or two, they came over a rise and signs on the path that read, "Please Keep Very Quiet".  The path lead into a small lush valley.
The believer asked in a whisper, "What is this area that we have to be so quiet?"
St. Peter replied, "Yes, we must keep very quiet.  This is where the Adventists live.  They think they are the only ones here in heaven..."
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 03:08:33 pm

If we were to meet and be friends, you'd find me the same on this forum as I am in person.  I don't apologize for my short-comings when there is nothing to apologize for.  I find it hilarious that a thread that from the OP is somewhat for fun and serious, that the atheists are offended by the apparent parroting of atheist speak in things dealing with God.


But you ARE supposed to apologise for sin.  Or, at least be sorry for it.  So there is something to be sorry for.

Quote

We must be willing to laugh at ourselves too.


Indeed.  But laughing at ourselves is a very different thing from laughing at the upset caused to others.  Especially publicly broadcasting that.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 19, 2015, 03:47:50 pm

If we were to meet and be friends, you'd find me the same on this forum as I am in person.  I don't apologize for my short-comings when there is nothing to apologize for.  I find it hilarious that a thread that from the OP is somewhat for fun and serious, that the atheists are offended by the apparent parroting of atheist speak in things dealing with God.


But you ARE supposed to apologise for sin.  Or, at least be sorry for it.  So there is something to be sorry for.

Quote

We must be willing to laugh at ourselves too.


Indeed.  But laughing at ourselves is a very different thing from laughing at the upset caused to others.  Especially publicly broadcasting that.

And again...I find no reason to be sorry for publicly broadcasting that one or more atheists were/are offended and/or upset at this thread where the mission is that atheists are arguing for the existence of potatoes.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 19, 2015, 03:55:26 pm
Seriously. Was someone offended by this thread? Anyone who was is in serious need of a life.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 19, 2015, 04:01:25 pm
Seriously. Was someone offended by this thread? Anyone who was is in serious need of a life.

Hence one reason I found it hilarious.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 19, 2015, 04:06:05 pm
Seriously. Was someone offended by this thread? Anyone who was is in serious need of a life.

Hence one reason I found it hilarious.
Yeah. I can see why! It's okay for atheists to parody theism with the FSM, but not okay to parody atheism with non-existent potatoes. Go figure. Is it hypocrisy or a double-standard?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 19, 2015, 04:33:07 pm
The FSM isn't a parody of theism.  Also what bothers me is not the parody, but rather the smug and dismissive tone, and complete lack of tact offered.  I was taking the op seriously, but I guess a serious discussion is too much to ask for on here.....
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 19, 2015, 04:40:31 pm
Life is too important to be taken seriously, my friend.  ;D
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 19, 2015, 04:50:12 pm
The FSM isn't a parody of theism.  Also what bothers me is not the parody, but rather the smug and dismissive tone, and complete lack of tact offered.  I was taking the op seriously, but I guess a serious discussion is too much to ask for on here.....

Indeed.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 20, 2015, 08:52:44 am
The FSM isn't a parody of theism.  Also what bothers me is not the parody, but rather the smug and dismissive tone, and complete lack of tact offered.  I was taking the op seriously, but I guess a serious discussion is too much to ask for on here.....

No it's not too much to ask for.  My comment on the comedic value I found in this was simply an off-comment.  So Crash decided to throw the "That's not very Christian-like" comment out when he evidently completely fails to realize that Christians are not Christians because they are perfect, but because they are flawed.

Quite frankly, I find humor in a lot of what goes on here on RF.  I happened to voice it in a thread about the existence or non-existence of potatoes...and the atheists are doubly offended.  I'm not here to nurse the delicate egos.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 20, 2015, 10:18:47 am

No it's not too much to ask for.  My comment on the comedic value I found in this was simply an off-comment.  So Crash decided to throw the "That's not very Christian-like" comment out when he evidently completely fails to realize that Christians are not Christians because they are perfect, but because they are flawed.


No I do not fail to realise that.  It's just that there is a HUGE difference between being not perfect, and openly publishing your flaws (non-apologetically) in a situation where you both represent Christ, and are actively reminded of him.

Quote
Quite frankly, I find humor in a lot of what goes on here on RF.  I happened to voice it in a thread about the existence or non-existence of potatoes...and the atheists are doubly offended.  I'm not here to nurse the delicate egos.

No, but you should be here to do the work of Christ.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 20, 2015, 11:00:32 am

No it's not too much to ask for.  My comment on the comedic value I found in this was simply an off-comment.  So Crash decided to throw the "That's not very Christian-like" comment out when he evidently completely fails to realize that Christians are not Christians because they are perfect, but because they are flawed.

No I do not fail to realise that.  It's just that there is a HUGE difference between being not perfect, and openly publishing your flaws (non-apologetically) in a situation where you both represent Christ, and are actively reminded of him.

Quote
Quite frankly, I find humor in a lot of what goes on here on RF.  I happened to voice it in a thread about the existence or non-existence of potatoes...and the atheists are doubly offended.  I'm not here to nurse the delicate egos.

No, but you should be here to do the work of Christ.

I'm hardly here to do the work of Christ, as if this were my mission field.  I find atheists intriguing.  I find philosophy interesting...I find atheist arguments amusing and interesting...etc.

Try as you might, I don't feel any guilt for finding it hilarious that you're offended...as it seems you are REALLY offended, so much so you can't let something so simple, go.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: joppe on May 20, 2015, 11:02:31 am
You should go to the library and add all the books about potatoes to the fiction section!! That'll convince all the potatoe believers!!
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 20, 2015, 11:13:04 am

I'm hardly here to do the work of Christ, as if this were my mission field.  I find atheists intriguing.  I find philosophy interesting...I find atheist arguments amusing and interesting...etc.

Try as you might, I don't feel any guilt for finding it hilarious that you're offended...as it seems you are REALLY offended, so much so you can't let something so simple, go.

I wasn't even slightly offended.  I find the complete lack of understanding displayed in this thread fairly comforting, if a little frustrating.

That doesn't mean I can't point out that revelling in the upset of others, and that doing so is unChristian.  Even if you do seem to have taken an "on the clock" approach to being a Christian.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 20, 2015, 11:13:55 am
If I took you to the grocery store and picked up a potato off the shelf and showed it to you, would you then believe me ?  Or would you claim "that isn't a potato".

If the latter, which it seems many of you think accurately represents a skeptic (even though it doesn't), I would seek then to either define what the word potato meant to your satisfaction, or ask for your definition of a potato and then demonstrate how the thing that I just showed you accurately meets that definition.

If after that you still refused to accept that it was a potato, then I would question your sincerity.  After all, if we define anything, like X, and we say that X has properties X, Y and Z and then I show you something with properties X, Y  and Z and you still rejected it, then you apparently misunderstand the nature of descriptors, and at that point it becomes impossible to show you that anything at all exists, because you don't accept the idea of descriptive words.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 20, 2015, 12:02:37 pm

I'm hardly here to do the work of Christ, as if this were my mission field.  I find atheists intriguing.  I find philosophy interesting...I find atheist arguments amusing and interesting...etc.

Try as you might, I don't feel any guilt for finding it hilarious that you're offended...as it seems you are REALLY offended, so much so you can't let something so simple, go.

I wasn't even slightly offended.  I find the complete lack of understanding displayed in this thread fairly comforting, if a little frustrating.

That doesn't mean I can't point out that revelling in the upset of others, and that doing so is unChristian.  Even if you do seem to have taken an "on the clock" approach to being a Christian.

Thou doth protest too much...

I'm still giggling.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 20, 2015, 12:04:51 pm

Thou doth protest too much...

I'm still giggling.

I protest too much?  That's the first time I've even mentioned that I wasn't offended :S
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 20, 2015, 12:13:39 pm
If I took you to the grocery store and picked up a potato off the shelf and showed it to you, would you then believe me ?  Or would you claim "that isn't a potato".

If the latter, which it seems many of you think accurately represents a skeptic (even though it doesn't), I would seek then to either define what the word potato meant to your satisfaction, or ask for your definition of a potato and then demonstrate how the thing that I just showed you accurately meets that definition.

If after that you still refused to accept that it was a potato, then I would question your sincerity.  After all, if we define anything, like X, and we say that X has properties X, Y and Z and then I show you something with properties X, Y  and Z and you still rejected it, then you apparently misunderstand the nature of descriptors, and at that point it becomes impossible to show you that anything at all exists, because you don't accept the idea of descriptive words.

What you call a potato has the texture and flavor of something quite different than what I would call a potato. I call it a "strawberry. "

What you see as evidence for the reality of potatoes,  I see as being evidence of a circumscribed point of view,  a point of view limited by the inabity to see beyond the obvious. You might call it empirical evidence;  I call it superstition -- an unwarented trust in the physical senses to tell you all there is to know about the world
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 20, 2015, 12:18:24 pm

Thou doth protest too much...

I'm still giggling.

I protest too much?  That's the first time I've even mentioned that I wasn't offended :S

Thou doth protest too much of me laughing......<sigh>

But it still makes me giggle.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 20, 2015, 01:15:24 pm
Quote
What you call a potato has the texture and flavor of something quite different than what I would call a potato. I call it a "strawberry. "

What you see as evidence for the reality of potatoes,  I see as being evidence of a circumscribed point of view,  a point of view limited by the inabity to see beyond the obvious. You might call it empirical evidence;  I call it superstition -- an unwarented trust in the physical senses to tell you all there is to know about the world

Great, so we are making progress here.  So, what I call a potato, you call a strawberry.  Ok, so you accept that "strawberries exist" ?  Right ?

Now, on to potatoes (since we have gotten 'strawberries out of the way =D ).  What exactly are you defining as a 'potato' ?  Clearly, my definition is different than yours, so, absent an understanding of what you mean when you use the word 'potato', I am not sure that I can help you at all here. 

I honestly have no idea at all what your second paragraph is talking about though ??
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 20, 2015, 04:55:08 pm
Quote
What you call a potato has the texture and flavor of something quite different than what I would call a potato. I call it a "strawberry. "

What you see as evidence for the reality of potatoes,  I see as being evidence of a circumscribed point of view,  a point of view limited by the inabity to see beyond the obvious. You might call it empirical evidence;  I call it superstition -- an unwarented trust in the physical senses to tell you all there is to know about the world

Great, so we are making progress here.  So, what I call a potato, you call a strawberry.  Ok, so you accept that "strawberries exist" ?  Right ?
Wrong. Matter does not exist. It's all in the mind.

Meaning is a projection of felt values/experiences: strawberries for me, potatoes for you. Your felt values/experience can be described as something as bland as a potato, but I find that a totally inadequate description for my felt values/experiences. What you call a potato is, to me, a mere shadow of reality and am amused by your attempts to prove the potato is a substantial reality.

No, potatoes do not exist. But neither do strawberries exist in the sense that you say potatoes exist.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: TheBigOhMan on May 20, 2015, 06:08:13 pm

Thou doth protest too much...

I'm still giggling.

I protest too much?  That's the first time I've even mentioned that I wasn't offended :S

Thou doth protest too much of me laughing......<sigh>

But it still makes me giggle.

You have problems dude...
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 20, 2015, 06:16:00 pm
 You realize that you went from questioning the existence of potatoes to the existence of all reality.  You do realize those are 2 vastly different questions, right?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 20, 2015, 06:26:52 pm
You realize that you went from questioning the existence of potatoes to the existence of all reality.  You do realize those are 2 vastly different questions, right?
Let's be clear: I do not question the existence of reality per se. I question the reality of things. I question the reality of potatoes and you cannot prove they exist.

Need I quote from the movie Lucy again?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 20, 2015, 06:40:11 pm
I will anyway:

Quote
Humans consider themselves unique, so they've rooted their whole theory of existence on their uniqueness. "One" is their unit of measure. But it's not. All social systems we've put into place are a mere sketch. "One plus one equals two.” That's all we've learned. But one plus one has never equaled two. There are, in fact, no numbers and no letters. [Neither are there any laws.] We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size, to make it comprehensible. We've created a scale so we can forget its unfathomable scale.

(I inserted the bracketed sentence.)
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: neil on May 21, 2015, 04:04:54 am
Goodness but this thread has become trollrific.

I just like to add that I cannot believe a Dict-tater as cruel as the one we find chip manual can be the embodiment of the all good stew.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Questions11 on May 21, 2015, 04:15:11 am
*groan*
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 21, 2015, 06:05:30 am
Quote
Let's be clear: I do not question the existence of reality per se. I question the reality of things. I question the reality of potatoes and you cannot prove they exist.

Again, I feel that I have to state this clearly, demonstrating the existsnce of potatoes is vastly, vastly different from demonstrating the reality of all physical things.  The OP was asking for the former, not the latter.  Have you abandoned the question of the OP ?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 21, 2015, 09:11:45 am

Thou doth protest too much...

I'm still giggling.

I protest too much?  That's the first time I've even mentioned that I wasn't offended :S

Thou doth protest too much of me laughing......<sigh>

But it still makes me giggle.

You have problems dude...

Don't we all, Captain Obvious?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 21, 2015, 10:26:55 am
Quote
Let's be clear: I do not question the existence of reality per se. I question the reality of things. I question the reality of potatoes and you cannot prove they exist.

Again, I feel that I have to state this clearly, demonstrating the existsnce of potatoes is vastly, vastly different from demonstrating the reality of all physical things.  The OP was asking for the former, not the latter.  Have you abandoned the question of the OP ?
To you, potatoes are an experiential reality; to me, they are a figment of your imagination, a projection. The burden is on you to show potatoes actually exist. Are you begging the question? (Or offended?)

You're facing a problem theists encounter all the time: skeptics asking for evidence with none forthcoming for the same reasons you cannot come up with evidence for the existence of potatoes.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 21, 2015, 10:33:26 am
I feel like this thread is returning to its original intent! I think booger is correct that questioning all of reality does effectively question the existence of potatoes. It is a debate tactic that happens on this site but I know Christians do stuff like this as well at times so I want to be fair.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Moot on May 21, 2015, 10:41:28 am
I feel like this thread is returning to its original intent! I think booger is correct that questioning all of reality does effectively question the existence of potatoes. It is a debate tactic that happens on this site but I know Christians do stuff like this as well at times so I want to be fair.

Really? Can you point me to one instance of someone denying the existence of reality as a debate tactic?

Also, I still don't understand the point of this thread. Are you trying to show that you can deny the existence of anything by making weird assumptions? Of course you can. Who's ever denied that?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 21, 2015, 10:46:00 am
I feel like this thread is returning to its original intent! I think booger is correct that questioning all of reality does effectively question the existence of potatoes. It is a debate tactic that happens on this site but I know Christians do stuff like this as well at times so I want to be fair.

Really? Can you point me to one instance of someone denying the existence of reality as a debate tactic?

Also, I still don't understand the point of this thread. Are you trying to show that you can deny the existence of anything by making weird assumptions? Of course you can. Who's ever denied that?

I mentioned the point in a number of places here. Most people misunderstood it… something I learned about psychology is that people often do not "hear" what the other person is saying but what they hear is something the have experienced in the past. It happens with couples often where one person says something totally innocent and the other person takes offense.

I would say that in intense discussions where you finally make a good point, rather than the person accepting the point they avoid it and make a different point which ends up distracting from the point that was at issue for the last 4 pages of the thread. I can't think off the top of my head someone questioning the external world specifically but I have seen them bring up our ability to know anything at random times… I more agreed with the analogy of the comment and not the literal… I may have misspoke or been wrong :)
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Moot on May 21, 2015, 10:53:25 am
I feel like this thread is returning to its original intent! I think booger is correct that questioning all of reality does effectively question the existence of potatoes. It is a debate tactic that happens on this site but I know Christians do stuff like this as well at times so I want to be fair.

Really? Can you point me to one instance of someone denying the existence of reality as a debate tactic?

Also, I still don't understand the point of this thread. Are you trying to show that you can deny the existence of anything by making weird assumptions? Of course you can. Who's ever denied that?

I mentioned the point in a number of places here. Most people misunderstood it… something I learned about psychology is that people often do not "hear" what the other person is saying but what they hear is something the have experienced in the past. It happens with couples often where one person says something totally innocent and the other person takes offense.

I would say that in intense discussions where you finally make a good point, rather than the person accepting the point they avoid it and make a different point which ends up distracting from the point that was at issue for the last 4 pages of the thread. I can't think off the top of my head someone questioning the external world specifically but I have seen them bring up our ability to know anything at random times… I more agreed with the analogy of the comment and not the literal… I may have misspoke or been wrong :)

Sure. There's often a willingness to win in discussions. Especially heated ones. Sometimes people will throw out red herrings. Sometimes they'll hide behind some unfalsifiable nonsense. I still don't see the relevance of the potato analogy.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 21, 2015, 11:04:19 am
I just want to be clear on what you ask asking me to demonstrate to you, the existence of 'everything physical' or the 'existence of potatoes'.   It's like asking me to explain Newtonian physics, and then ignoring my explanation saying that I did not explain the laws of nature, and without those laws, physics does not work.

I was operating on the assumption that we both accept the existence of the physical.  Is that a false assumption?  Should I begin at that point, or am I wasting my time here ?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 21, 2015, 12:47:11 pm
I feel like this thread is returning to its original intent! I think booger is correct that questioning all of reality does effectively question the existence of potatoes. It is a debate tactic that happens on this site but I know Christians do stuff like this as well at times so I want to be fair.

Really? Can you point me to one instance of someone denying the existence of reality as a debate tactic?

Also, I still don't understand the point of this thread. Are you trying to show that you can deny the existence of anything by making weird assumptions? Of course you can. Who's ever denied that?

I mentioned the point in a number of places here. Most people misunderstood it… something I learned about psychology is that people often do not "hear" what the other person is saying but what they hear is something the have experienced in the past. It happens with couples often where one person says something totally innocent and the other person takes offense.

I would say that in intense discussions where you finally make a good point, rather than the person accepting the point they avoid it and make a different point which ends up distracting from the point that was at issue for the last 4 pages of the thread. I can't think off the top of my head someone questioning the external world specifically but I have seen them bring up our ability to know anything at random times… I more agreed with the analogy of the comment and not the literal… I may have misspoke or been wrong :)

Sure. There's often a willingness to win in discussions. Especially heated ones. Sometimes people will throw out red herrings. Sometimes they'll hide behind some unfalsifiable nonsense. I still don't see the relevance of the potato analogy.

My thought was that potatoes obviously exist, but reason and debate tactics can be used to defend their non existence. I wanted that to be seen by experiencing this thread. But it is becoming far too personal and serious because people immediately thought I was saying that there was some analogy between potatoes and God which wasn't my intent.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Moot on May 21, 2015, 12:53:21 pm
I feel like this thread is returning to its original intent! I think booger is correct that questioning all of reality does effectively question the existence of potatoes. It is a debate tactic that happens on this site but I know Christians do stuff like this as well at times so I want to be fair.

Really? Can you point me to one instance of someone denying the existence of reality as a debate tactic?

Also, I still don't understand the point of this thread. Are you trying to show that you can deny the existence of anything by making weird assumptions? Of course you can. Who's ever denied that?

I mentioned the point in a number of places here. Most people misunderstood it… something I learned about psychology is that people often do not "hear" what the other person is saying but what they hear is something the have experienced in the past. It happens with couples often where one person says something totally innocent and the other person takes offense.

I would say that in intense discussions where you finally make a good point, rather than the person accepting the point they avoid it and make a different point which ends up distracting from the point that was at issue for the last 4 pages of the thread. I can't think off the top of my head someone questioning the external world specifically but I have seen them bring up our ability to know anything at random times… I more agreed with the analogy of the comment and not the literal… I may have misspoke or been wrong :)

Sure. There's often a willingness to win in discussions. Especially heated ones. Sometimes people will throw out red herrings. Sometimes they'll hide behind some unfalsifiable nonsense. I still don't see the relevance of the potato analogy.

My thought was that potatoes obviously exist, but reason and debate tactics can be used to defend their non existence. I wanted that to be seen by experiencing this thread. But it is becoming far too personal and serious because people immediately thought I was saying that there was some analogy between potatoes and God which wasn't my intent.

But that point is too obvious to even be pointed out. Of course you can defend the view that potatoes don't exist with fallacious reasoning, and weird assumptions. Again, who has ever denied that?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 21, 2015, 01:18:41 pm
I feel like this thread is returning to its original intent! I think booger is correct that questioning all of reality does effectively question the existence of potatoes. It is a debate tactic that happens on this site but I know Christians do stuff like this as well at times so I want to be fair.

Really? Can you point me to one instance of someone denying the existence of reality as a debate tactic?

Also, I still don't understand the point of this thread. Are you trying to show that you can deny the existence of anything by making weird assumptions? Of course you can. Who's ever denied that?

I mentioned the point in a number of places here. Most people misunderstood it… something I learned about psychology is that people often do not "hear" what the other person is saying but what they hear is something the have experienced in the past. It happens with couples often where one person says something totally innocent and the other person takes offense.

I would say that in intense discussions where you finally make a good point, rather than the person accepting the point they avoid it and make a different point which ends up distracting from the point that was at issue for the last 4 pages of the thread. I can't think off the top of my head someone questioning the external world specifically but I have seen them bring up our ability to know anything at random times… I more agreed with the analogy of the comment and not the literal… I may have misspoke or been wrong :)

Sure. There's often a willingness to win in discussions. Especially heated ones. Sometimes people will throw out red herrings. Sometimes they'll hide behind some unfalsifiable nonsense. I still don't see the relevance of the potato analogy.

My thought was that potatoes obviously exist, but reason and debate tactics can be used to defend their non existence. I wanted that to be seen by experiencing this thread. But it is becoming far too personal and serious because people immediately thought I was saying that there was some analogy between potatoes and God which wasn't my intent.

But that point is too obvious to even be pointed out. Of course you can defend the view that potatoes don't exist with fallacious reasoning, and weird assumptions. Again, who has ever denied that?

I defended their non-existence without using fallacious reasoning actually but the point is that its ridiculous and no one would defend it but people use philosophy to defend ridiculous beliefs.

Though I am tired of explaining my intent, if people don't understand it by now it don't have a desire to keep talking about it.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Moot on May 21, 2015, 01:27:44 pm
I feel like this thread is returning to its original intent! I think booger is correct that questioning all of reality does effectively question the existence of potatoes. It is a debate tactic that happens on this site but I know Christians do stuff like this as well at times so I want to be fair.

Really? Can you point me to one instance of someone denying the existence of reality as a debate tactic?

Also, I still don't understand the point of this thread. Are you trying to show that you can deny the existence of anything by making weird assumptions? Of course you can. Who's ever denied that?

I mentioned the point in a number of places here. Most people misunderstood it… something I learned about psychology is that people often do not "hear" what the other person is saying but what they hear is something the have experienced in the past. It happens with couples often where one person says something totally innocent and the other person takes offense.

I would say that in intense discussions where you finally make a good point, rather than the person accepting the point they avoid it and make a different point which ends up distracting from the point that was at issue for the last 4 pages of the thread. I can't think off the top of my head someone questioning the external world specifically but I have seen them bring up our ability to know anything at random times… I more agreed with the analogy of the comment and not the literal… I may have misspoke or been wrong :)

Sure. There's often a willingness to win in discussions. Especially heated ones. Sometimes people will throw out red herrings. Sometimes they'll hide behind some unfalsifiable nonsense. I still don't see the relevance of the potato analogy.

My thought was that potatoes obviously exist, but reason and debate tactics can be used to defend their non existence. I wanted that to be seen by experiencing this thread. But it is becoming far too personal and serious because people immediately thought I was saying that there was some analogy between potatoes and God which wasn't my intent.

But that point is too obvious to even be pointed out. Of course you can defend the view that potatoes don't exist with fallacious reasoning, and weird assumptions. Again, who has ever denied that?

I defended their non-existence without using fallacious reasoning actually but the point is that its ridiculous and no one would defend it but people use philosophy to defend ridiculous beliefs.

Though I am tired of explaining my intent, if people don't understand it by now it don't have a desire to keep talking about it.

That's fine. And yes, you can use philosophical lingo to defend any idea you want to defend. My favorite example is Douglas Harding's 'On Having No Head', where he defends the idea that he doesn't have a head.

http://themindi.blogspot.com/2007/02/chapter-2-on-having-no-head.html
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 21, 2015, 02:01:13 pm
I just want to be clear on what you ask asking me to demonstrate to you, the existence of 'everything physical' or the 'existence of potatoes'.   It's like asking me to explain Newtonian physics, and then ignoring my explanation saying that I did not explain the laws of nature, and without those laws, physics does not work.

I was operating on the assumption that we both accept the existence of the physical.  Is that a false assumption?  Should I begin at that point, or am I wasting my time here ?
Are you beginning to see the problem theists have? No matter how many times and how many ways a theist says, "God does not exist, but is existence itself," atheists insist on talking about God as though God is a "thing" reducible to an idea. They insist that "one plus one equals two" and that there is nothing else beyond "one plus one."

In this scenario, I am playing the role of an "apotatoist" and you have to prove to me potatoes really exist. But you can't, you know you can't because the parameters I put into place makes it impossible. So rather than do what theists do, you tell yourself you're wasting your time and turn your back.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: TheBigOhMan on May 21, 2015, 02:28:10 pm

Don't we all, Captain Obvious?

¿Why don't you just bite me next time? chill out...
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 21, 2015, 02:54:23 pm
Both parties should stop the fighting or bickering or whatever you call it. I am contemplating deleting the thread because of it... if that is still possible.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 21, 2015, 03:03:57 pm
I am going to try to delete the thread mostly because it has been misinterpreted and will probably continue to be so. I don't have any hard feelings or think anything bad about people who commented or got into it with each other. I mostly am just certain that people will continue to quote the OP and misunderstand it so I might as well trash it if the system still let's you.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: FNB - Former non-believer on May 21, 2015, 03:04:57 pm
Haha, nvm. It's impossible!
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 21, 2015, 03:55:05 pm
Quote
Are you beginning to see the problem theists have? No matter how many times and how many ways a theist says, "God does not exist, but is existence itself," atheists insist on talking about God as though God is a "thing" reducible to an idea. They insist that "one plus one equals two" and that there is nothing else beyond "one plus one."

In this scenario, I am playing the role of an "apotatoist" and you have to prove to me potatoes really exist. But you can't, you know you can't because the parameters I put into place makes it impossible. So rather than do what theists do, you tell yourself you're wasting your time and turn your back.

No, actually. The problem that I have seen was you moving the goal posts in the discussion; changing from one thin to another.  While this makes things difficult, it does not make the discussion impossible to have.  We just have to re-adjust and re-focus the conversation on the new goal posts.  I am willing to do that if you are serious here, but it seems more and more that you are simply trying to make a rhetorical point without ever actually taking the response seriously.

I am more than willing to show you how we can go about tackling this problem, if you want to listen, but if you want to just say "no" and put your fingers in your ears, well it is a free country.

Also, please don't try to tell me what it is that I can and cannot do before I have even tried.  It is a little insulting, and it shows me that you are not really taking this exercise seriously at all.....  You seem to be taking this as a soap box to proclaim "Look what atheists can't do !" and then when I try you simply shrug and say "but what about X" and then when I try to explain X, you say "but what about Y" and then when I explain Y, you say "but what about X....."

-------------------

So I have to ask again, are you honestly seeking an answer to your challenge, or was it simply a rhetorical device that you are assuming proves your point automatically without ever even considering to other side of the discussion ?
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Crash Test on May 21, 2015, 04:00:14 pm

Are you beginning to see the problem theists have? No matter how many times and how many ways a theist says, "God does not exist, but is existence itself," atheists insist on talking about God as though God is a "thing" reducible to an idea.

Very, very few theists make that claim, at least consistentlym, and at least not here.  Craig's arguments explicitly contradict it, and the main proponent of that idea that springs to mind is Tillich, who is often accused of being an atheist...

If you happen to have that view, fine, but most responses aren't directed at you.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Booger on May 21, 2015, 04:05:34 pm
Quote
Are you beginning to see the problem theists have? No matter how many times and how many ways a theist says, "God does not exist, but is existence itself," atheists insist on talking about God as though God is a "thing" reducible to an idea. They insist that "one plus one equals two" and that there is nothing else beyond "one plus one."

In this scenario, I am playing the role of an "apotatoist" and you have to prove to me potatoes really exist. But you can't, you know you can't because the parameters I put into place makes it impossible. So rather than do what theists do, you tell yourself you're wasting your time and turn your back.

No, actually. The problem that I have seen was you moving the goal posts in the discussion; changing from one thin to another.  While this makes things difficult, it does not make the discussion impossible to have.  We just have to re-adjust and re-focus the conversation on the new goal posts.  I am willing to do that if you are serious here, but it seems more and more that you are simply trying to make a rhetorical point without ever actually taking the response seriously.

I am more than willing to show you how we can go about tackling this problem, if you want to listen, but if you want to just say "no" and put your fingers in your ears, well it is a free country.

Also, please don't try to tell me what it is that I can and cannot do before I have even tried.  It is a little insulting, and it shows me that you are not really taking this exercise seriously at all.....  You seem to be taking this as a soap box to proclaim "Look what atheists can't do !" and then when I try you simply shrug and say "but what about X" and then when I try to explain X, you say "but what about Y" and then when I explain Y, you say "but what about X....."

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So I have to ask again, are you honestly seeking an answer to your challenge, or was it simply a rhetorical device that you are assuming proves your point automatically without ever even considering to other side of the discussion ?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The bottom line is this: you cannot prove potatoes exist.
Title: Re: Potatoes do not exist
Post by: Johan Biemans (jbiemans) on May 21, 2015, 05:32:52 pm
So not willing to answer my questions??  You are not interested in a conversation.