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Reasons for Joy; In Gentleness, and Respect.

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Messages - Booger

1
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Untitled
« on: May 22, 2015, 10:13:30 pm »
I hope it's okay 'cause I'm totally with you.

2
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Lessons learned
« on: May 22, 2015, 10:05:53 pm »
ROFLMAO!!! Would you believe I got a warning for saying what I said in this thread? I assume it was intended for Wonderer.

3
Choose Your Own Topic / A Song that Goes on Singing
« on: May 22, 2015, 06:46:06 pm »
Just a little while ago I ordered a book to replace the one I had because it was falling apart from overuse. The book's title is The Psychic Grid: How We Create the World We Know, by Beatrice Bruteau. A practicing Catholic, the late Bruteau gives us a unique combination of science, the mystical East and the mystical West that I find appealing and, I am sure, many theists and non-theists will find appalling.

Here is an interview with Dr. Bruteau originally published in What is Enlightenment magazine: A Song that Goes on Singing

How many here are interested in this kind of stuff and if not, why not?

4
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Omnipotence
« on: May 22, 2015, 04:35:04 pm »
Quote
"One plus one equals two.” That's all we've learned. -- Lucy

Lucy was right.

5
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Lessons learned
« on: May 22, 2015, 04:25:40 pm »
Hmmm. Looks to me as if the guy has some serious issues to work out.

6
I still say life is too important to be taken seriously.

7
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Argument against Infinity
« on: May 22, 2015, 12:46:55 am »
In discussing in infinity, I always suggest that people read Holophany: The Loop of Creation.

8
Quote
When you start to pull out facts and figures, hyperlinks and quotes, you are actually making the opponent feel even surer of his position than before you started the debate. As he matches your fervor, the same thing happens in your skull. The backfire effect pushes both of you deeper into your original beliefs.

http://www.brainpickings.org/2014/05/13/backfire-effect-mcraney/

I will never again quote an evolutionary biologist, ever.
Good article, but I don't think it's anything new to anyone who pays attention.

Quote
Jesus, Gonod, and Ganid made five trips away from Rome to points of interest in the surrounding territory. On their visit to the northern Italian lakes Jesus had the long talk with Ganid concerning the impossibility of teaching a man about God if the man does not desire to know God. They had casually met a thoughtless pagan while on their journey up to the lakes, and Ganid was surprised that Jesus did not follow out his usual practice of enlisting the man in conversation which would naturally lead up to the discussion of spiritual questions. When Ganid asked his teacher why he evinced so little interest in this pagan, Jesus answered:

“Ganid, the man was not hungry for truth. He was not dissatisfied with himself. He was not ready to ask for help, and the eyes of his mind were not open to receive light for the soul. That man was not ripe for the harvest of salvation; he must be allowed more time for the trials and difficulties of life to prepare him for the reception of wisdom and higher learning. Or, if we could have him live with us, we might by our lives show him the Father in heaven, and thus would he become so attracted by our lives as sons of God that he would be constrained to inquire about our Father. You cannot reveal God to those who do not seek for him; you cannot lead unwilling souls into the joys of salvation. Man must become hungry for truth as a result of the experiences of living, or he must desire to know God as the result of contact with the lives of those who are acquainted with the divine Father before another human being can act as the means of leading such a fellow mortal to the Father in heaven. If we know God, our real business on earth is so to live as to permit the Father to reveal himself in our lives, and thus will all God-seeking persons see the Father and ask for our help in finding out more about the God who in this manner finds expression in our lives.”

Quote
When Simon Zelotes and Jesus were alone, Simon asked the Master: “Why is it that I could not persuade him? Why did he so resist me and so readily lend an ear to you?” Jesus answered: “Simon, Simon, how many times have I instructed you to refrain from all efforts to take something out of the hearts of those who seek salvation? How often have I told you to labor only to put something into these hungry souls? Lead men into the kingdom, and the great and living truths of the kingdom will presently drive out all serious error. When you have presented to mortal man the good news that God is his Father, you can the easier persuade him that he is in reality a son of God. And having done that, you have brought the light of salvation to the one who sits in darkness. Simon, when the Son of Man came first to you, did he come denouncing Moses and the prophets and proclaiming a new and better way of life? No. I came not to take away that which you had from your forefathers but to show you the perfected vision of that which your fathers saw only in part. Go then, Simon, teaching and preaching the kingdom, and when you have a man safely and securely within the kingdom, then is the time, when such a one shall come to you with inquiries, to impart instruction having to do with the progressive advancement of the soul within the divine kingdom.”

Whether you believe something like this happened or even could happen, what does it matter if the message it conveys about human nature is true? Let's face it. Someone living comfortably in a make-believe world has neither reason nor desire to escape. This is true of both theists and atheists. More and more I see the wisdom of not-knowing; more and more, I realize people are led by God by God letting them to think it is themselves finding the way. Nowhere in the Bible do we see Jesus debating God's existence.

9
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Do you think Aliens exist?
« on: May 21, 2015, 04:12:37 pm »
Ever meet my neighbor? If you did, you would never again doubt the existence of aliens.

10
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Potatoes do not exist
« on: May 21, 2015, 04:05:34 pm »
Quote
Are you beginning to see the problem theists have? No matter how many times and how many ways a theist says, "God does not exist, but is existence itself," atheists insist on talking about God as though God is a "thing" reducible to an idea. They insist that "one plus one equals two" and that there is nothing else beyond "one plus one."

In this scenario, I am playing the role of an "apotatoist" and you have to prove to me potatoes really exist. But you can't, you know you can't because the parameters I put into place makes it impossible. So rather than do what theists do, you tell yourself you're wasting your time and turn your back.

No, actually. The problem that I have seen was you moving the goal posts in the discussion; changing from one thin to another.  While this makes things difficult, it does not make the discussion impossible to have.  We just have to re-adjust and re-focus the conversation on the new goal posts.  I am willing to do that if you are serious here, but it seems more and more that you are simply trying to make a rhetorical point without ever actually taking the response seriously.

I am more than willing to show you how we can go about tackling this problem, if you want to listen, but if you want to just say "no" and put your fingers in your ears, well it is a free country.

Also, please don't try to tell me what it is that I can and cannot do before I have even tried.  It is a little insulting, and it shows me that you are not really taking this exercise seriously at all.....  You seem to be taking this as a soap box to proclaim "Look what atheists can't do !" and then when I try you simply shrug and say "but what about X" and then when I try to explain X, you say "but what about Y" and then when I explain Y, you say "but what about X....."

-------------------

So I have to ask again, are you honestly seeking an answer to your challenge, or was it simply a rhetorical device that you are assuming proves your point automatically without ever even considering to other side of the discussion ?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The bottom line is this: you cannot prove potatoes exist.

11
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Potatoes do not exist
« on: May 21, 2015, 02:01:13 pm »
I just want to be clear on what you ask asking me to demonstrate to you, the existence of 'everything physical' or the 'existence of potatoes'.   It's like asking me to explain Newtonian physics, and then ignoring my explanation saying that I did not explain the laws of nature, and without those laws, physics does not work.

I was operating on the assumption that we both accept the existence of the physical.  Is that a false assumption?  Should I begin at that point, or am I wasting my time here ?
Are you beginning to see the problem theists have? No matter how many times and how many ways a theist says, "God does not exist, but is existence itself," atheists insist on talking about God as though God is a "thing" reducible to an idea. They insist that "one plus one equals two" and that there is nothing else beyond "one plus one."

In this scenario, I am playing the role of an "apotatoist" and you have to prove to me potatoes really exist. But you can't, you know you can't because the parameters I put into place makes it impossible. So rather than do what theists do, you tell yourself you're wasting your time and turn your back.

12
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Potatoes do not exist
« on: May 21, 2015, 10:26:55 am »
Quote
Let's be clear: I do not question the existence of reality per se. I question the reality of things. I question the reality of potatoes and you cannot prove they exist.

Again, I feel that I have to state this clearly, demonstrating the existsnce of potatoes is vastly, vastly different from demonstrating the reality of all physical things.  The OP was asking for the former, not the latter.  Have you abandoned the question of the OP ?
To you, potatoes are an experiential reality; to me, they are a figment of your imagination, a projection. The burden is on you to show potatoes actually exist. Are you begging the question? (Or offended?)

You're facing a problem theists encounter all the time: skeptics asking for evidence with none forthcoming for the same reasons you cannot come up with evidence for the existence of potatoes.

13
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: What is a human being?
« on: May 21, 2015, 12:48:25 am »
"Human being" is a verb. A human being is the relating of a relation -- a synthesis of the Infinite and the finite, Eternal and temporal, Freedom and necessity -- relating to itself.

At least, that's my answer.

14
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Parsimony and Inconsistency
« on: May 20, 2015, 10:55:44 pm »

Solipsism posits one mind that experiences "trillions and trillions of separate entities with different properties, complex organisms, and the like."

That's the Wiki definition. It describes some forms of idealism better than it does solipsism. Most others follow this line:

1. Philosophy The theory that the self is the only thing that can be known and verified.
2. The view that the self is the only reality.


15
Choose Your Own Topic / Re: Potatoes do not exist
« on: May 20, 2015, 06:40:11 pm »
I will anyway:

Quote
Humans consider themselves unique, so they've rooted their whole theory of existence on their uniqueness. "One" is their unit of measure. But it's not. All social systems we've put into place are a mere sketch. "One plus one equals two.” That's all we've learned. But one plus one has never equaled two. There are, in fact, no numbers and no letters. [Neither are there any laws.] We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size, to make it comprehensible. We've created a scale so we can forget its unfathomable scale.

(I inserted the bracketed sentence.)

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