Reasons for Joy; In Gentleness, and Respect.

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Messages - Joseph Evensen

Choose Your Own Topic / Bouyah!
« on: March 31, 2011, 12:37:13 pm »

=p kidding.  very cool.

Craig vs Krauss / Dr. Craig vs. Lawrence Krauss
« on: March 31, 2011, 09:09:18 am »
Right.  All Atheist really know God exists, they just deny it.  Silly Atheist.

VitruviannMan wrote:

That's great CTD, but you're still misrepresenting what Deism and Theism stands for. Please look them up anywhere you like, I implore you.

Theism says that there is a personal Monotheistic God who is  present and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe.

Deism says that reason and observation should help one conclude that a supreme being created the Universe, and that this supreme being does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe.

Again, please go ahead and look up the terms. You will see that Deism then is still Deism today - not Theism.

Choose Your Own Topic / Is belief in Satan irrational?
« on: March 25, 2011, 10:54:27 am »
Archsage wrote:
Quote from: tigerslip
Apparently he didn't think saying "you look like a child" is offensive?

You want to stop making up lies now?
You are right, I should not have put quotes around my paraphrase of what you said.  What I was trying to say, is that's the way it came across.  Better?

Choose Your Own Topic / Is belief in Satan irrational?
« on: March 25, 2011, 10:52:22 am »
Archsage wrote:
But your question is very easy to answer, I'm surprised that you can't answer it yourself. Maybe if you listen to the other posters here you'll be able to pick up the answer without having to look like a student that needs his questions answered.
I have my opinion on the answer to the question, I was more curious about yours.  So, instead of assuming your answer, I asked.  Something wrong with that?

Choose Your Own Topic / Is belief in Satan irrational?
« on: March 25, 2011, 10:49:25 am »
@ Depthcharge:  Thanks!  I thought it was a bit unnecessary too.  Apparently he didn't think saying "you look like a child" is offensive?  hm.

As to your comment about propaganda:  Can you give me a concrete example of how Satan would cause me to be tempted by the lolita?  Like he would do X,Y and Z and thus I am being tempted?

For example, if I take Satan out of the equation, it's easier to come up with a concrete example.  Lets just say the little lolita wanted to tempt me herself.  She could (X) wear a mini-skirt on purpose, (Y) make sure she bends over alot when I was around, and (Z) put us in situations where we are alone.  She would be doing that all of her free will.

Now, lets say the little lolita has no intention of tempting me.  How would Satan cause this to happen?  What is his X,Y and Z?

Choose Your Own Topic / Was Jesus Gay?
« on: March 25, 2011, 10:34:19 am »
oober this is a silly thread.  lol.

Choose Your Own Topic / Is belief in Satan irrational?
« on: March 23, 2011, 01:49:29 pm »
Archsage wrote: It's seems much more plausible that Satan is a mastermind when it comes to temptation, and that humanity is just plain wrong as they try and blame 'him' for their wrongdoings, just like Eve.
It might seem more plausible if I was committed to Christianity.  I'm not.

Also, you did not answer my question.  In the scenario I gave (or in any scenario you can come up with) how does Satan tempt us, without interfering with our free will?  If he led me to the hot little lolita, then he was messing with my free will, and the same if he led she to me.  If he had nothing to do it with, then he just seems unnecessary.

Choose Your Own Topic / Is belief in Satan irrational?
« on: March 23, 2011, 11:20:36 am »
If you read the bible, Satan just seems like a very humanistic representation or personification of evil eg Satan provokes(1 chron 1:21), tempts (mark 1:13), accuses (job), resists (Zechariah 3:1), binds (luke 13:16), hinders (1 thess 2:18), etc.

It does seem irrational that when I feel tempted to do something immoral, that is being caused by Satan.  How could he cause it?  In what example could he cause my temptation?  If I am being tempted by a hot little lolita to cheat on my girlfriend, did he cause her to find me, or me to find her?  It seems that anyway he could bring about this temptation would be an interference in someones free will (whether mine or the hot little lolita).  

Seems more plausible to me that humans invented and named Satan as a personification of evil.

Watched the youtube.  Very awesome!

Choose Your Own Topic / Defense of Marriage Act
« on: February 18, 2011, 02:57:41 pm »
This is sad...

Choose Your Own Topic / Questioning my Faith: The Problem of Hell
« on: February 15, 2011, 03:19:23 pm »
RobertH wrote: I do not think a person can study the evidence and not become a Christian. I know this is easy for me to affirm living in America and having abundant resources and access to those resources. I know for other people this is harder, such as most middle-easterners. But to anyone sincerely seeking they will realize, 'it's not just me, this is eternity, about something bigger than me' and that will drive them to the Truth. I have personal (which would include experiences with people IRL) and theological reasons for thinking this.
I studied the evidence and left Christianity.  Many people do.  I am open to re-converting should I realize the error of my ways, but as of now I feel stronger in my conviction as time goes on.

I intuitively know your argument is wrong, but alas I lack a way to show you.  =-)

Also, when you get a minute I am curious to hear your response to my comment about punishing a dog via execution.  Would you consider that punishment, although the Dog is no longer conscious?

Choose Your Own Topic / Questioning my Faith: The Problem of Hell
« on: February 15, 2011, 02:02:19 pm »
RobertH wrote: Others do not really seem to read much out of other people's statements and read into them
 This is often frustrating for me as well.  Many times others will misrepresent my position because they do not carefully read what I have written.
RobertH wrote:
No, there is a misunderstanding. I only mean that I would not trust my gut feelings if they were inconsistent with what the Bible teaches unless I had a reason to authentically doubt that passage.
Just to clarify.  You are saying that we should trust our moral intuition only unless it conflicts with the Bible?  If so, what else can I say?  lol.  However, this seems like a very flimsy argument.  It sounds like you are saying "I trust my moral intuition until it conflicts with my presuppositions".  Picking and choosing a bit...
RobertH wrote:
a. Non-existence is not a punishment. To be punished one must be conscious. (Matthew 25:46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.)
Disagree.  If my Dog turns on my child and attacks him, and I execute the Dog is that not punishment for his crime?  Yet he is no longer conscious for eternity.
RobertH wrote: Again, it is just separation from the Being whom they reject so there is not an outside oppressive force. This is exactly what the non-believer wants.
You keep shying away from the hell fire part.  Are you one who believes the language of fire and brimstone is figurative?
Also, just because you are a Christian and were once a seeker does not mean that everyone who is an honest seeker will become Christian.  Do you think it's possible for people to honestly review Christianity and remain unconvinced?  

Choose Your Own Topic / Mere Christianity
« on: February 15, 2011, 01:49:09 pm »
bm359 wrote: People misunderstand his liar, lunatic, or Lord argument. He wasn't putting that forward as an argument for Christ's Lordship, Lewis was putting it forward as an argument against theological liberals who believe Christ was merely a good teacher. There is a trichotomy about Christ, and "just a good person" isn't one of the options.
Yeah.  Though it is possible that even if you were a liberal Christian you could believe that the later gospels simply exaggerated his reported self-claims of being a Deity.

Choose Your Own Topic / Mere Christianity
« on: February 15, 2011, 12:50:49 pm »
gunman wrote: I'm just reading it for the first time. He makes a decent case for a Creator God (though I am not convinced), but the leap to the Christian God was just utterly illogical to me.

All he does is make a few brief remarks how pantheism and dualism are inadequate, but that doesn't get us anywhere near the Christian God. And does anyone seriously think the Lord, Liar or Lunatic argument has any weight whatsoever?
I felt the same way when I read it.  Decent arguments for some type of God but the leap to Christianity is really weak.

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