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Øystein

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The Jesus Myth
« on: April 25, 2007, 11:31:03 am »
First of all, I am not sure if this is the right category to put this, but I coulnd't find a better alternative.

   

   The thing is that one I know is constantly speaking about Jesus as a myth. As I have read much here and there about this topic, I know that this is not a good position to hold if you go after the evidence, but this guy won't really listen to things like "Almost all of the serious scholars (Christian and non-christian alike) who writes on the topic believes that Jesus was a historic person.

   

   The reason I am getting this up here, is that I would like to have some point-by-point straight and easy arguments to say that Jesus existed. I am a little confused of what I am going to tell one who don't really have a clue regarding historical studies.

   

   I think Gregory Boyd once had 9 short and effective arguments against the Jesus legend, but I have lost the video (I remember it was a debate between him and Robert Price). I would think that it is arguments like that which would be most suitable.

   

   Anyone got any good links or something?

   

   Thank you!

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Rick_blaine

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The Jesus Myth
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 07:59:48 pm »

Here is link to Peter Kirby’s review of that debate: The Link


He gives his own description and spin on the nine items. I don’t know Mr. Kirby’s background, but he seems to be a non-theist.

I am curious what evidence your friend gives for Jesus being a myth?


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Bill Maloney

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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 08:19:24 pm »
Here is a link to the audio and video of what might be the same debate: Link

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Øystein

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The Jesus Myth
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2007, 06:56:17 am »
Actually, Peter Kirby just now converted back to Christianity:

   

   http://uberchristians.org/vb/showthread.php?t=424

   

   Regards,

   Øystein

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Bill Maloney

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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2007, 05:11:46 pm »
Thanks for the correction and good news.  I could not tell his exact views from his commentary on the debate.

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William Demsar

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The Jesus Myth
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2007, 05:12:40 pm »
I have a question on the logical possibility of someone being both a man and God.
 
     ISn't it true that it is not possible for me to be GOd. ie in no possible world am I God. Isn't what makes this true that there is something logically incompatible between human nature and God nature? Isn't it the case that there is a difference in those essential properties that a human has and that God has? If there is no such essential difference in the essence of a human, then one speaks truly when they say-'Bill could have been God'.
    IF there is anything essential to the property of 'being human' surely it is being contingent, being limited in power and knowledge, etc. If there is anything essential about the property of 'being God' then surely it is not being contingent, not being limited in power or knowledge etc.
    It seems that the incarnation commits the Christian to saying that there is no essential difference in the properties that God has and the properties that Humans have. Isn't that just a little counterintuitive?
  So I guess how it is possible for Jesus to have been fully human-ie, human in the same sense I am while at the same time being God?


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Harvey

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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2007, 10:46:15 pm »

William Demsar wrote: So I guess how it is possible for Jesus to have been fully human-ie, human in the same sense I am while at the same time being God?

Again, I'm not an expert in theology...

The Word or Logos is God. The Word comes into the world as spiritual light. However, in order for this light to be more fully exemplified in the world, the Word must come in conscious form. The identity of this Word is in the person of Jesus, and therefore it is the identity relation with the "light of the world" that establishes Jesus as God.

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Jeff

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The Jesus Myth
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2007, 10:00:36 pm »
Hi William.

Good question. There's a fair amount of literature out there on this issue, and it would be foolish of me to try and summarize it in a post of this sort.  If you've got a fairly good grounding in analytic philosophy and want a plausible answer to your inquiry, I suggest you take a look at Thomas Morris's, The Logic of God Incarnate.  If not, let me know and I'll try to give a more simplified answer within a few days.  My schedule is crazy and I can't promise anything, but I'll do what I can.  


Best Wishes,

Jeff



William Demsar wrote: I have a question on the logical possibility of someone being both a man and God.
 
     ISn't it true that it is not possible for me to be GOd. ie in no possible world am I God. Isn't what makes this true that there is something logically incompatible between human nature and God nature? Isn't it the case that there is a difference in those essential properties that a human has and that God has? If there is no such essential difference in the essence of a human, then one speaks truly when they say-'Bill could have been God'.
    IF there is anything essential to the property of 'being human' surely it is being contingent, being limited in power and knowledge, etc. If there is anything essential about the property of 'being God' then surely it is not being contingent, not being limited in power or knowledge etc.
    It seems that the incarnation commits the Christian to saying that there is no essential difference in the properties that God has and the properties that Humans have. Isn't that just a little counterintuitive?
  So I guess how it is possible for Jesus to have been fully human-ie, human in the same sense I am while at the same time being God?


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Eric S

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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2007, 11:32:24 pm »
My simple answer to the question is:

It would indeed be impossible for a man to somehow assume a God nature and become both human and God, since it would be a logical absurdity for the finite creature to become his own infinite Creator, who preexisted him.

An aspect of infinite God is that he cannot be diminished. It seems to me that due to this, and the fact that he is not limited in terms of what he can create or what he can do (so long as it is not an evil act), it would be reasonable to suppose that the infinite Creator could assume an additional finite human nature without it diminishing his God nature.  

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Anthony

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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 05:32:20 pm »
See Bart D. Ehrman's new book, Did Jesus Exist? He gives good evidence for the historical Jesus of Nazareth. Here's a quick lecture by him about this topic.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnybQxIgfPw[/video]
My account name, 'Copleston' is named after the famous Jesuit Philosopher, Frederick Copleston, who famously debated atheist philosopher, Bertrand Russell on BBC Radio in 1948.