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Timothy Campen

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Christ's Genealogy
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2011, 02:41:19 pm »

unluckynumber11 wrote:
Quote from: warpedfx
Quote from: neilmeyerza

How do they explain the empty tomb or the post mortem appearances?

That is what I want to know.


Joseph of Arimethea moved the body since it was a temporary affair for the thanksgiving. Afterwords they bury the body in a common grave as is customary for the times. Disciples, already traumatized and grieving for the loss of their messiah get the wrong idea about this and it triggers them seeing jesus everywhere, much like the Elvis phenomenon.

Then the stories become exaggerated.

Not saying this is unquestionably what happened, but it's possible.
Then wouldn't Joseph of Arimethea say "Hey guys he didn't rise from the grave I just moved him, here is his body" and then the Christian movement would have never taken off?

How do you know he didn't?  Maybe he did tell a few people, but they refused to believe it.  Maybe the people he told never told anyone else because they lost their faith and went on with their lives.  Maybe no disciples asked him.  Maybe by the time someone thought to ask him, Joe moved or died.  

We need to be careful not to assume 1st Century Jewish followers of a radical messianic figure would become Sherlock Holmes, investigating every claim with keen wit, observation, and note taking.  Followers of messianic figure Sabbatai Zevi believed he performed Jesus-like miracles even after Zevi himself denied such claims and converted to Islam. (Up to a few hundred thousand such followers remain to this day.)  

History is too full of examples of people believing what they want. And in the context of Jesus, where nothing about the man himself was written down for more than a generation later, we must concede there is just so much we really don't know.  I'm personally ok with acknowledging what we don't know.
I raise a pint to WLC and all of you, even if I often disagree.  For I am convinced thoughtful people can disagree without being disagreeable.

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Jeffrey

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Christ's Genealogy
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2011, 11:34:59 am »
tcampen wrote:

Quote from: unluckynumber11
Quote from: warpedfx
Quote from: neilmeyerza

How do they explain the empty tomb or the post mortem appearances?

That is what I want to know.


Joseph of Arimethea moved the body since it was a temporary affair for the thanksgiving. Afterwords they bury the body in a common grave as is customary for the times. Disciples, already traumatized and grieving for the loss of their messiah get the wrong idea about this and it triggers them seeing jesus everywhere, much like the Elvis phenomenon.

Then the stories become exaggerated.

Not saying this is unquestionably what happened, but it's possible.
Then wouldn't Joseph of Arimethea say "Hey guys he didn't rise from the grave I just moved him, here is his body" and then the Christian movement would have never taken off?

How do you know he didn't?  Maybe he did tell a few people, but they refused to believe it.  Maybe the people he told never told anyone else because they lost their faith and went on with their lives.  Maybe no disciples asked him.  Maybe by the time someone thought to ask him, Joe moved or died.  

We need to be careful not to assume 1st Century Jewish followers of a radical messianic figure would become Sherlock Holmes, investigating every claim with keen wit, observation, and note taking.  Followers of messianic figure Sabbatai Zevi believed he performed Jesus-like miracles even after Zevi himself denied such claims and converted to Islam. (Up to a few hundred thousand such followers remain to this day.)  

History is too full of examples of people believing what they want. And in the context of Jesus, where nothing about the man himself was written down for more than a generation later, we must concede there is just so much we really don't know.  I'm personally ok with acknowledging what we don't know.
Trying to shift the burden of proof huh? We have no indication that he did, his name was thrown around a lot as a witness to what happened, if anyone in the first century wanted to be sure they would ask him and he would tell them "no" if it in fact didn't happen. As well the Disciples didn't have any reason to believes he would in fact rise form the dead, they had no expectations of that happening. As well from the account of Luke, he was a historian, he went out and found these things for himself and created his Gospel. I think it's smart to NOT assume that 1st century people were just dimwitted idiots that would believe anything just because it's a pre-scientific time.