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Robert

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What do we become in heaven?
« on: June 16, 2009, 07:57:23 am »
so i was watching this Youtube rebuttal to a point Craig made about God being simple, because he is an immaterial mind and i had a couple questions...i'm not sure if this is the best place to ask them, but i will ask them here none the less.

First here's the video...my screen name on Youtube is Graffight so you can see the questions i was asking the poster of the video.

Incorporeal Mind: A Response to W.L. Craig Part 3

My questions for Craig would be

A) how is it that we define God as an immaterial mind. Where is this supported in the bible?

B) does Craig hold the position that we will also become immaterial minds in heaven. If so where is that conclusion supported in the bible.

I'm asking here, because i'm sure i won't be able to talk to Craig directly, and maybe someone in here more framilliar with his work than i am can point me in the right direction.

It is bad when one thing becomes two. One should not look for anything else in the Way of the Samurai. It is the same for anything that is called a Way. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all ways and be more and more in accord with his own. - Hagakure

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infinitehope

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What do we become in heaven?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 04:55:14 am »
God has a mind. but is not human:

Sa 15:29 Besides, the eternal God of Israel isn't a human being. He doesn't tell lies or change his mind."

God has a mind:

1Co 2:10 God's Spirit has shown you everything. His Spirit finds out everything, even what is deep in the mind of God.

Since God has a mind and isnt human, it would follow that His mind would not be like ours - and would be immaterial as the rest of God is a "sprit mind" if you will. I'm sure there are more , better verses for this.

As for the second part- I'd sugest the book of Revalation, where we are given a new body and there is a new heven...

Now that doesn't really answer your question, but since we are to be given new bodys , it would hold that our mind-spirt would be eather transfered instantly to it, or be near/with God untill the final days, eather way it would make sence that our minds would be as much a spirt form as God's would be (just of less magantude)



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Pieter

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What do we become in heaven?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 07:09:43 am »

Graffight wrote:
My questions for Craig would be

A) how is it that we define God as an immaterial mind. Where is this supported in the bible?

B) does Craig hold the position that we will also become immaterial minds in heaven. If so where is that conclusion supported in the bible.

A) John 4:24 "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." Also, if God is the creator, He cannot be matterial because that would mean that He is part of His own creation. He would then have come into existence after He created the world. But how can you create unless you exist?

B) Not sure but Dr Craig believes in Jesus' physical resurrection and supports this by 1 Cor 15 which talks about the resurrection of the dead (people) which he argues is physical. The idea is that resurrection is always a grave-emptying resurrection in the New Testament. See also NT Wright's site: http://www.ntwrightpage.com/

Pieter
Pieter van Leeuwen

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What do we become in heaven?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 11:09:37 am »
The traditional Christian view, or at least the biblical view, is that when we die, we don't go to the "final" heaven, but rather are with God in some way. Many speculate that even this temporary existence is in some way physical, while others say this is only spiritual. However, it is very widely agreed that at the final resurrection, we are all given new bodies that are more spiritually oriented than physically, not that we a spirit body like a ghost. This seems to be true based on Christ's resurrection body, in that obviously there was some difference because even His followers did not fully recognize Him, yet He was really physical. Personally, I think that we will have some physical nature in the temporary existence before the final resurrection because I think it is an essential part of being human, and I don't think we cease to be human at any time, the way angels never cease to be angels whether with God or on earth.