Filip Prsic

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« on: June 17, 2010, 07:41:23 am »
Dr. Craig seems to indicate so in one of his articles:

Jews, in particular, remain dear to God, but the plan of salvation also  includes all who acknowledge the Creator, such as Muslims.


http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5220


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Bill Clute

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 12:30:26 pm »

You have taken those words totally out of the context in which they were used in the article.  They are not the views of WLC but the views of the 2nd Vatican Council.

Truth is sacred and if you tell the truth too often nobody will believe it.  - G.K. Chesterton
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. - attributed to Joseph Goebbels
To give truth to him who loves it not is only to give him more plentiful mat

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Filip Prsic

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 01:56:05 pm »
billclute wrote:

You have taken those words totally out of the context in which they were used in the article.  They are not the views of WLC but the views of the 2nd Vatican Council.



Hmm...

Maybe, maybe. I somehow got the impression those were Craig's views since he often insists (elsewhere) that those who have not heard the Gospel, but acknowledge the existence of a Creator God may be included in the plan of salvation.

Anyway, here is some Scriptural support for the potential salvation of Jews:

John 5:24 - http://bible.logos.com/passage/nasb/Job%2038.4-9#q=&ref=Jn%205%3A24%2Chi%3DJn%205%3A24&ver=NASB&tab=home&content=.

Thoughts?






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Bill Clute

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 02:20:59 pm »

I don't see anything in that verse that distinguishes Jews from anyone else.  The plan of salvation is open to everyone, even Jews.  Because of Jesus on the cross, all humanity has potential salvation.

Truth is sacred and if you tell the truth too often nobody will believe it.  - G.K. Chesterton
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. - attributed to Joseph Goebbels
To give truth to him who loves it not is only to give him more plentiful mat

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Filip Prsic

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 04:55:09 pm »
"He, who trusts Him who sent Me".

Jews (well, most of them) trust the Father God as revealed in the Torah.

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Bill Clute

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2010, 08:21:48 am »
Some do some don't.  Those that do would trust the Son whom He sent.  Jews such as Moses and the other Patriarchs are saved on their faith (i.e. trust) that God would provide a savior for them (as was described in the OT).  That turned out to be Jesus.  So they are saved by Jesus just like we are.

Jews of Jesus day seemed to be legalistic and trying to earn heaven on their own merits.  They did not accept Jesus as their savior and did not trust what God had promised them in the OT.

Jews today, well, it's kind of hard to pin down what they believe.
Truth is sacred and if you tell the truth too often nobody will believe it.  - G.K. Chesterton
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. - attributed to Joseph Goebbels
To give truth to him who loves it not is only to give him more plentiful mat

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Joseph Evensen

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 02:50:42 pm »
Of course they can!  as long as they become Christians!!

=p

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john wickenden

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2011, 01:22:59 am »
How about me?
Not much time for gods and certainly not the Christian God but I took trouble to make my dog Jack happy this morning.

enquiringly
John


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FNB - Former non-believer

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2011, 05:53:23 pm »
john wrote: How about me?
Not much time for gods and certainly not the Christian God but I took trouble to make my dog Jack happy this morning.

enquiringly
John


I don't know you personally, but just based on the above comment I thought it would be good to post this,

"Religion is so great a thing  that it is right that those who will not take the trouble to seek it,  if it be obscure, should be deprived of it."

- Blaise Pacal

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Thomas Larsen

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 10:31:10 pm »

As Paul writes in Romans 2,

5 But because of your  stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath  against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment  will be revealed. 6 God "will repay each person according to what they have done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13  For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight,  but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14  (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things  required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do  not have the law. 15 They  show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their  consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing  them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Ultimately, though, I don't think debates of this kind are particularly helpful. God will surely do what is just and right; trust him, rather than arguing about all the details; and follow his clear commission to go out and make disciples of all nations, representing the kingdom of God on Earth.

Thomas Larsen
tomlarsen.org

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2011, 08:13:29 pm »

john wrote: How about me?
Not much time for gods and certainly not the Christian God but I took trouble to make my dog Jack happy this morning.

enquiringly
John

Doing good deeds, like kindness to your dog, etc, doesn't really bridge the gap between man and God caused by individual sin. Sin is disobeying God. Sin can be either active or passive...that is ignoring God and just going about your independent way. Everyone sins and everyone's life belongs to God but each person must decide to surrender his or her life and will to God or not. God won't make them do it. God promises complete and immediate forgiveness of sins and eternal life when you turn to Him and receive Jesus into your life.

It's a free gift. You can't earn it through good deeds or religion. If you think that God is out to cheat you out of your life or make you a weirdo then you believe a lie of the Devil. It really is just the opposite.

Jesus said that He came to give us life and give it abundantly. If you honestly search your heart you will see that this is true. If you just bow your head and heart and Ask God to forgive you and come into your life in jesus' name then in that moment He will. Awesome and wonderful things will happen if you pray that prayer sincerely. If you want to but can't then ask Him to help you (i did) and God will move heaven and earth to help you come to Him.

Don


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ksilvey10

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 04:37:00 pm »
God won't force anybody to go to heaven.  We're operating under the assumption that God sends people to hell against their will.

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Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2012, 02:57:47 pm »
ksilvey10 wrote: God won't force anybody to go to heaven.  We're operating under the assumption that God sends people to hell against their will.

This is a very important point. God doesn't send people to hell - they go to hell freely because they don't accept God's attempts to save them.

Anyone who has heard the Good News and rejected it won't get into heaven. To those who have not heard it; they will be judged based on their response to General Revelation.
Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance, - Proverbs 1:5

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sharky

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 05:39:07 pm »
Quote
<P>I don't see anything in that verse that distinguishes Jews from anyone else.  The plan of salvation is open to everyone, even Jews.  Because of Jesus on the cross, all humanity has potential salvation.</P>

Hi Bill Clute; my sentiments exactly, a sage once provided me with a unique perspective that at the Last Judgement, it wasn't going to be an instantaneous decision as multitudes of humanity had never had the chance to be aware of Rabbi Yeshua the Messiah, and many, many of those that did, though they believed, had been taught a distorted version of who this most remarkable man was, hence there would be a period of remedial training by professionals, perhaps YHWHs malakim/angels, who would inform these countless multitudes of the truth, then, given their Free Will, they would be given the opportunity to make the choice of joining YHWHs and Yeshuas family or to be extinguished. It is YHWH who owns all souls.

Though YHWH can certainly destroy the soul of the most degenerate, unrepentant, many souls will need purification, the Hell will be a period of intense reflection upon our transgressions and separation from the Light of God.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

Abraham Lincoln

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Othello Orson

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 12:33:19 am »
This is so comical.

They all believe in the same god, the Jews are the "chosen ones of god" who wrote the coming of the Messiah prophecy (their own prophecy) and disagree that the prophecy has been fulfilled (which only they could know), god sent an angel to Muhammad to tell him the true story of himself and you believe in this debatable person, Jesus, the others don't accept and you're debating who's going and who's not going to heaven?

Not to mention, if the world wide trend continues, Islam will end up having the largest following of any religion on earth so making them axed out of heaven for not believing in the same god the right way a rather serious loss to god not to mention invalidating his original philosophy of what he represented.

So at the "Pearly gates" gods going to say to Jews and Muslims nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, I spread three theories of myself and you chose poorly, off to hell.

Are you listening to yourselves?

I means, seriously. I'm glad I don't need to play this game:

"My gods better then yours" and it's all the same god?! Your kidding right?