DrewMazanec

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2012, 05:17:00 pm »
I asked Dr. Craig about this in Defenders. He said that those who reject Jesus or reject his divinity will be condemned.

This means that Orthodox Jews who reject that Jesus is God will be damned for their unbelief. Here is a sampling of the Scriptural support.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
- John 14:6

Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
- John 5:23

“The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
- Luke 10:16

No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
- 1 John 2:23

Whoever believes in Jesus is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
- John 3:18

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CorneliusC

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2019, 12:18:53 pm »
I don't think it's helpful to speculate on who gets into Heaven, and who doesn't. We know that certain saints are in Heaven: men like Augustine, More, and Bonhoeffer, along with women like Mother Teresa, Katharine Drexel, and Mary the Theotokos. We should be careful in speculating as to who's in Hell, since God's divine mercy is indeed mystical.

I believe that non-Christians can enter Heaven, if they truly seek truth, and fail to find it before dying. However, Jesus is always the preferred path to salvation. See Romans 2.

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jayceeii

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2019, 10:17:35 am »
We know that certain saints are in Heaven: men like Augustine, More, and Bonhoeffer, along with women like Mother Teresa, Katharine Drexel, and Mary the Theotokos.
When you say, “we know,” here, logically the statement reduces to, “Catholics believe,” or, “Certain people teach.” It is not actual knowledge, it is speculation, or presumption. I am curious if you see what your mind is doing, as you say, “We know,” if humans don’t really know. This is a typical habit of religionists, and I’m wondering if you, personally, can see that this is not knowledge, although you have said that it is. If it is knowledge, then please list your proofs or evidence. I find this a bit baffling. When I say, “I know,” I mean that I really know and can usually demonstrate it or at least provide compelling evidence. For instance, I’ve studied Augustine and Teresa among those you list, and have shown by lengthy argument they are entering certain states defined in the East, which are not the states of those about to enter Heaven. So I say I know that they are not in Heaven.

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CorneliusC

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2019, 11:28:02 pm »
We know that certain saints are in Heaven: men like Augustine, More, and Bonhoeffer, along with women like Mother Teresa, Katharine Drexel, and Mary the Theotokos.
When you say, “we know,” here, logically the statement reduces to, “Catholics believe,” or, “Certain people teach.” It is not actual knowledge, it is speculation, or presumption. I am curious if you see what your mind is doing, as you say, “We know,” if humans don’t really know. This is a typical habit of religionists, and I’m wondering if you, personally, can see that this is not knowledge, although you have said that it is. If it is knowledge, then please list your proofs or evidence. I find this a bit baffling. When I say, “I know,” I mean that I really know and can usually demonstrate it or at least provide compelling evidence. For instance, I’ve studied Augustine and Teresa among those you list, and have shown by lengthy argument they are entering certain states defined in the East, which are not the states of those about to enter Heaven. So I say I know that they are not in Heaven.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. As someone who appears to be a non-theist, I doubt you believe in Heaven to begin with, so I see no point in having a discussion, when we start with radically different assumptions.

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jayceeii

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2019, 10:30:32 am »
You're entitled to your opinion, of course. As someone who appears to be a non-theist, I doubt you believe in Heaven to begin with, so I see no point in having a discussion, when we start with radically different assumptions.
My point is that humans are not happy on Earth, and would not be happy in Heaven either. All thought about Heaven has been extremely primitive, presuming it will be the place where desire is satisfied and there is no work. All imagine quarrels and wars will cease, but they are sure the other parties will cease first, and haven’t understood their minds are still quarrelsome and so these are not problems they could leave behind them.

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Triple Scooby

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2019, 11:13:15 am »
jayciiii,

In Heaven sin has no hold.on anything or anyone.  Heaven as Christ relates is not a place of carnal pleasure as you seem to think.  It's a place of glory and love absent sin.  You seem to presuming otherwise, so you're contriving your own religion, not dealing with Christ and His Gospel.

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jayceeii

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Re: Do Muslims, Jews and deists go to Heaven?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2019, 05:22:47 pm »
jayciiii,

In Heaven sin has no hold.on anything or anyone.  Heaven as Christ relates is not a place of carnal pleasure as you seem to think.  It's a place of glory and love absent sin.  You seem to presuming otherwise, so you're contriving your own religion, not dealing with Christ and His Gospel.
If humans go to Heaven they’ll bring sin with them. They conceive they’d like to be free of sin but the reality is far different, for sin is their very nature, from which they cannot part. If there is a path to getting free from sin Jesus didn’t mention it, though the Buddha might have done so. You haven’t really understood about sin, if you think it is just carnal pleasures. Sin is every moment of uncooperativeness with man and rebellion against God.

Religions are contrived by those the angels deem worthy to undertake such a role, so I’m flattered if you think I’m contriving one. But one would hope religion to be based upon objective truth, that the angels can also sample so they can verify most that is spoken. I proceed without hopes of a reception, yet am strangely moved to say a little here or there. The Bible is bad news for modern man, and the news is the creatures will kill the Creator.