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Jesus Became Perfect
« on: December 17, 2010, 09:55:10 am »
What does it mean in

Heb 5:

7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

What does it mean for Christ to learn obedience?  Christ is said to be our Elder brother and our Kinsmen redeemer.  He has been tempted in all points as a compassionate high priest who is touched with our infirmities.

Luke 2:40 also tells of the development of Christ saying

And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.

Christ is often portrayed by Christians as a sort of superman who is incapable of being human like us.  The serious nature of his temptations and his humanity is illustrated best in the garden of Gethsemane where He distinguishes his will from the fathers.

Luke 22:42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

Interested to hear some replies on the humanity and the seriousness of the temptations of Christ.


Robert Harris

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Jesus Became Perfect
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010, 03:36:40 pm »
You are right that Christians do not emphasize the humanity of Jesus. When it says that Jesus learned obedience; the type of obedience that a Jew was supposed to reflect with regards to God, law, and overall Jewish religion. When Jesus was tempted, he was tempted exactly like a human. He really desired to do things that humans desire but know are sinful. Of course this is all reflective of his human aspect.
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Re: Jesus Became Perfect
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2019, 03:09:20 pm »
It is clear these statements are not authoritative, because of all that is missing were an authority to make statements of such a nature. An actual authority would know:

1.   That the Lord speaks does not imply He is like a man, even if he speaks loudly or cries. It is unknown what is happening inwardly, and a careful eye should see the Lord’s inner processes are not like those of created souls. Furthermore the Lord might laugh where men cry, and cry as they laugh, from His divine perspective.
2.   The doctrine of the Trinity implies that there can be surface differences between the three aspects of God. Jesus’ words in the Garden if read carefully, are obviously a “set piece,” intended to be viewed, not actually whining that the Holy Spirit use Its powers to deliver Him from the Romans, or from humans generally.
3.   If it is claimed submission can influence God to answer prayer, the nature of this submission must be defined. To say merely, “Thy Will be done,” is just what everyone says all the time, because God acts by His decree, not from petition.
4.   If Jesus was set under Melchizedek, the authority of Melchizedek must be defended, not just the authority of Jesus, as the verse purports. Is Melchizedek a god? Is he a man influenced by the Holy Spirit? Why do we have no parables from Melchizedek? Why should we presume a priest represents God’s power?
5.   It is clear that the obedience requested from the Bible did not include preserving the environment or the resources for future generations, as men call the planet disposable. So what type of obedience is meant, that ignores planetary realities?
6.   The statement from Luke about Christ’s childhood is far too vague to carry meaning. What exactly is meant by “the grace of God was upon him”? By lack of attention to existential detail, the author of this statement shows he neither knows nor cares if Jesus was actually God. Presumably Jesus Himself, knows and cares.
7. Seeming like a man is not a step up or challenge for the Creator, but a matter of tearing down and keeping awareness and powers hidden. The temptations of Christ are not only laughable for the Lord, but for anyone who is beyond dualism.