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Danny C

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« on: January 23, 2012, 08:41:50 am »
Could somebody give their critique of this..  http://nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
"

Christians love to bring up the names of Josephus Flavius, Pliny the  Younger, Tacitus, Suetonius and others as testimonies to Jesus’ life,  however, they couldn't have been eye-witnesses to him simply because  they didn't live in his calculated supposed lifetime.

 

How about historians who ~did~ live in that time? “Take, for example,  the works of Philo Judaeus who's birth occurred in 20 B.C.E. and died  50 C.E. He lived as the greatest Jewish-Hellenistic philosopher and  historian of the time and lived in the area of Jerusalem during the  alleged life of Jesus. He wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events  that occurred in the surrounding area. Yet not once, in all of his  volumes of writings, do we read a single account of a Jesus "the  Christ." Nor do we find any mention of Jesus in Seneca's (4? B.C.E. - 65  C.E.) writings, nor from the historian Pliny the Elder (23? - 79 C.E.)."


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Nicholas Olsen

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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2012, 12:16:25 am »
http://www.tektonics.org/qt/remslist.html

According to this article, there's a couple things wrong.

1.) It's debated that he lived past Jesus's death.
2.) He wasn't Hellenistic.
3.) He had family in Jerusalem, but did not live there.

This is according to tekton, so i guess you should take these both of the sources as skeptical. I suppose you'll have to go right to the scholars themselves for clarification because 1 of these sites have to be wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyb7SQefYMA

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FNB - Former non-believer

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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2012, 12:00:56 am »
chaowdur wrote: Could somebody give their critique of this..  http://nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
"

Christians love to bring up the names of Josephus Flavius, Pliny the  Younger, Tacitus, Suetonius and others as testimonies to Jesus’ life,  however, they couldn't have been eye-witnesses to him simply because  they didn't live in his calculated supposed lifetime.

 

How about historians who ~did~ live in that time? “Take, for example,  the works of Philo Judaeus who's birth occurred in 20 B.C.E. and died  50 C.E. He lived as the greatest Jewish-Hellenistic philosopher and  historian of the time and lived in the area of Jerusalem during the  alleged life of Jesus. He wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events  that occurred in the surrounding area. Yet not once, in all of his  volumes of writings, do we read a single account of a Jesus "the  Christ." Nor do we find any mention of Jesus in Seneca's (4? B.C.E. - 65  C.E.) writings, nor from the historian Pliny the Elder (23? - 79 C.E.)."


I didn't read the article as it was like 50 pages and I don't have the time, but I don't think it matters that you don't have historians writing that were eyewitnesses to Jesus (though you do have Paul who everyone dates at least some of his letters around 49 A.D. as well as some of the gospel material that goes back early) as the people you mentioned were highly respected historians. We trust reliable historians writing hundreds of years after events, and, for example Josephus, was much closer to Jesus' time. Why Philo or the others didn't mention Jesus, I don't know specifically. It's not like Jesus was an emperor. He is pretty famous now, but back then he was probably seen as not much more than another failed messiah by many after his death. But as I said the list you gave in the first paragraph of historians who mentioned Jesus was a long list of reliable names which is, as for the discipline of history, is far more than enough to conclude some things about Jesus. (such as that he existed and was crucified)