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Presumption of Atheism

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Rob Heusdens

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2014, 11:47:01 am »
There is a new atheistic tactic for trying to debunk Theism, especially Christianity.

First, let me say that the foundational Materialism that is at the core of atheistic thinking (i.e., there is only the material world and no supernatural one) has been disproved by experiments done by [Quantum] physicists (See Planck, Bell's Inequality, Aspect's experiment, Zeilinger's Non-local variable Theory, Haisch, Kochen-Specker Theorem, Leggett-Garg Inequality namely) (nature.com). Atheists either don't know, don't care, or flat-out deny this scientific evidence of the illusion of Materialism because it would become a logical incohesion since Atheism is all about Materialism. In short, Atheism would be gutted.


No phsycist who adhere to Quantum Mechanics attribute the sometimes rather weird outcomes of QM experiments to the existence of some deity. QM is not falsifying materialism, but just speciies the behaviour of matter at the micro scales.

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demosthenes

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2014, 04:32:53 pm »
Atheist: we exist.
Atheist: maybe there is no reason.
Atheist: maybe the human language is not consistent and belief is a linguistic/neurophysical feedback loop of varying radius.
Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think. - Niels Bohr.

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Gladius

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2014, 12:10:43 am »
There is a way of thinking in the popular culture that
-Atheists are rational and have evidence on their side
-Science supports atheism and destroys theism

So how we can change that?
I really would like to change that since that clearly isn't true.

What other assumptions can you list?
I think there were some others but I don't remember them all :(

EDIT:
I think I'll make a list of the assumptions:

-Atheists are rational and have evidence on their side
-Science supports atheism and destroys theism
-Theists are stupid and uneducated
-Theists think that the Earth is 6000 years old
-Theists believe that evolution never occurred
-Atheism is the default position
-Atheism is 'lack of belief' in god(s)
-There is no such thing as agnosticism, ignosticism or apatheism - they are created by theists in order to redefine atheism
-Everyone is an atheist
-One can not believe in God and be reasonable at the same time
-Faith is not reasonable
-ALL theists are creationists
-Atheists always think for themselves
-Theists are just sheep that believe what they are told to believe
-Theists think that human was created 6000 years ago
-Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing
-Naturalism is the 'lack of belief' in supernaturalism
-More science means less religion
-Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing
-The quantum vacuum is nothing
-Jesus never existed
-There is no afterlife, reincarnation, heaven, hell, purgatory etc...
-The mind is a product of the brain and cannot survive without the brain
-There are no spiritual things
-Naturalism is true by default

Now all you need to do is falsify them and you might have achieved something.

The Spanish Inquisition: The Original Faith Based Initiative

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2014, 04:05:03 am »
Now all you need to do is falsify them and you might have achieved something.

I do not understand the purpose of that comment. It seems to me that you want the OP to falsify them because that would be an achievement of something.

But I question, why do you wish for the OP achieve something that was not his original intention? He just wanted a list of common atheist assumptions and people replied to him.

I think, for the purpose of the thread, he had already achieved what he wanted to achieved.

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Gladius

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2014, 10:48:59 pm »
If you say so, but it's not much of an achievement.

The Spanish Inquisition: The Original Faith Based Initiative

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joppe

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2014, 05:57:23 am »
There is a way of thinking in the popular culture that
-Atheists are rational and have evidence on their side
-Science supports atheism and destroys theism

So how we can change that?
I really would like to change that since that clearly isn't true.

What other assumptions can you list?
I think there were some others but I don't remember them all :(

EDIT:
I think I'll make a list of the assumptions:

-Atheists are rational and have evidence on their side
-Science supports atheism and destroys theism
-Theists are stupid and uneducated
-Theists think that the Earth is 6000 years old
-Theists believe that evolution never occurred
-Atheism is the default position
-Atheism is 'lack of belief' in god(s)
-There is no such thing as agnosticism, ignosticism or apatheism - they are created by theists in order to redefine atheism
-Everyone is an atheist
-One can not believe in God and be reasonable at the same time
-Faith is not reasonable
-ALL theists are creationists
-Atheists always think for themselves
-Theists are just sheep that believe what they are told to believe
-Theists think that human was created 6000 years ago
-Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing
-Naturalism is the 'lack of belief' in supernaturalism
-More science means less religion
-Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing
-The quantum vacuum is nothing
-Jesus never existed
-There is no afterlife, reincarnation, heaven, hell, purgatory etc...
-The mind is a product of the brain and cannot survive without the brain
-There are no spiritual things
-Naturalism is true by default

Now all you need to do is falsify them and you might have achieved something.

Claims made by the atheists have no evidence. Therefore I can dismiss those claims without evidence.
Saying you 'merely lack belief' in God while arguing for naturalism is the same as saying you 'don't have a political opinion' while praising a political party.

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2016, 03:39:29 pm »
The list is a strawman.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Period.

Anything that is said after that does NOT reflect atheism, only the additional beliefs of that individual.

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loganonekenobi

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2016, 10:51:56 am »
i can address some of these assumptions to a degree.  No one is intelligent or unintelligent due to religious belief. Many atheists forget why that is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y201QzDdzbg
However the religious doctrine tells the adherents to consider the non-believer unwise
Proverbs 1:7
from this proverb I get that the only difference to God between wise and unwise is belief in him.
Just want to remind my theist brother/sister to judge not and all that. I say let your god do that.
Science has reveal the mysteries that were once the realm of the supernatural but only for the last 500 years or so.  That's not very long compared to human history (some 10,000 years or so of civilization).
The assumption is that eventually all mysteries will be revealed.  So far no god has been behind any solved mystery. If you can in a POSITIVE way (not god of the gaps or negative way) show me different then I will adjust my view to fit the evidence.
However it would be arrogant to assume that this trend will continue indefinitely.  we may indeed find a god at the end of a mystery.  As a scholar we must live in the present and not fall to the temptation to assume the future of discovery. We cannot make claims of truth without solid evidence.  It is okay for an atheist to simply say "I don't know".
However, the religious make claims of the past, present, and future based on less than solid evidence and usually on nothing more than faith. In fact if the theist doubts and questions then he/see may risk God's wrath. This would not be a real problem except that until secularization become accepted instead of illegal this non fact based idea was literally to die for and kill for.
http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
Please remember these people when you want to cry foul to the atheist.  understand I loath the action of those who try to forcefully destroy the religious as well (China,Russia).
We as humans have imagination.  Due to this we can imagine that there may be a continuation of existence after the body dies.  In fact most hope so.  However, even with near death experiences, no  evidence exists of life after death because in NDEs the brain is not truly dead. But that does not mean that we can totally write off life after death.  It may simply mean that our science can't see past death.
We are in a novel place and time when we can discuss this sort of thing without one of us being killed for heresy or treason. Now i ask you, would you want the heresy rules to return to silence me?  I have seen post of some (on other forums) that would.


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elisur

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2016, 01:43:08 am »
There is a way of thinking in the popular culture that
-Atheists are rational and have evidence on their side
-Science supports atheism and destroys theism

So how we can change that?
I really would like to change that since that clearly isn't true.

What other assumptions can you list?
I think there were some others but I don't remember them all :(

EDIT:
I think I'll make a list of the assumptions:

-Atheists are rational and have evidence on their side
-Science supports atheism and destroys theism
-Theists are stupid and uneducated
-Theists think that the Earth is 6000 years old
-Theists believe that evolution never occurred
-Atheism is the default position
-Atheism is 'lack of belief' in god(s)
-There is no such thing as agnosticism, ignosticism or apatheism - they are created by theists in order to redefine atheism
-Everyone is an atheist
-One can not believe in God and be reasonable at the same time
-Faith is not reasonable
-ALL theists are creationists
-Atheists always think for themselves
-Theists are just sheep that believe what they are told to believe
-Theists think that human was created 6000 years ago
-Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing
-Naturalism is the 'lack of belief' in supernaturalism
-More science means less religion
-Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing
-The quantum vacuum is nothing
-Jesus never existed
-There is no afterlife, reincarnation, heaven, hell, purgatory etc...
-The mind is a product of the brain and cannot survive without the brain
-There are no spiritual things
-Naturalism is true by default

I am new a the forum but what I found was that for atheist "to understand something" automatically means that it was taken away from God, but I find so difficult to grasp, and I am going to try an example, I like to understand things working inside my car, but it doesn´t mean that i can take out the company´s logo and say that the company doesn´t exist anymore because I understood 4% on how the car was made... Even if I undertood 96% on the way it was made I am not entitled to dump the creator. But I would really like to read some reference about this particular issue.

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2016, 06:33:02 am »
There is a way of thinking in the popular culture that
-Atheists are rational and have evidence on their side
-Science supports atheism and destroys theism

So how we can change that?
I really would like to change that since that clearly isn't true.

What other assumptions can you list?
I think there were some others but I don't remember them all :(

EDIT:
I think I'll make a list of the assumptions:

-Atheists are rational and have evidence on their side
-Science supports atheism and destroys theism
-Theists are stupid and uneducated
-Theists think that the Earth is 6000 years old
-Theists believe that evolution never occurred
-Atheism is the default position
-Atheism is 'lack of belief' in god(s)
-There is no such thing as agnosticism, ignosticism or apatheism - they are created by theists in order to redefine atheism
-Everyone is an atheist
-One can not believe in God and be reasonable at the same time
-Faith is not reasonable
-ALL theists are creationists
-Atheists always think for themselves
-Theists are just sheep that believe what they are told to believe
-Theists think that human was created 6000 years ago
-Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing
-Naturalism is the 'lack of belief' in supernaturalism
-More science means less religion
-Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing
-The quantum vacuum is nothing
-Jesus never existed
-There is no afterlife, reincarnation, heaven, hell, purgatory etc...
-The mind is a product of the brain and cannot survive without the brain
-There are no spiritual things
-Naturalism is true by default

I don't understand your usage of a word assumption, that's one thing, the second one is that many things you mentionedsimply are true with general regard to atheists (I guess that's what you intended to mean) but I don't understand why would you like to change people's minds about them since they're true.

Naturalism and atheism are indeed both default positions, I think it goes without saying, not believing in something is always default, otherwise you end up believing in everything including contradictory things.

Science supports atheism in a sense that gradually and cosntantly reduces necessity for the existence of god, it's plain and obvious pattern namely as time goes on god of the gaps is getting smaller and smaller.

Atheism for most of people who call themselves atheists indeed means "lack of belief in god" what's wrong with that?

"One can not believe in God and be reasonable at the same time" - holding unreasonable belief means a person who holds it is indeed unreasonable at least with respect to that one thing. You can argue that there are plenty of arguments that try to justify and rationalise belief in god but the point is they're simply not convincing enough.

Whether faith is reasonable or not depends on what you mean by faith. To me personally faith means belief not based on reason, and that's exact definition of what unreasonable belief means.

Naturalism by definition precludes supernaturalism, again your usage of word assumption doesn't make sense to me.

"Things can pop into being uncaused out of nothing" - It's widely accepted fact among physicists working on quantum mechanics but I guess it depends on your definition of nothing.

"The quantum vacuum is nothing" - it's the best nothing we can get, absolute nothing some apologists like to talk about may be nothing more than philosophical concept or idea.

"The mind is a product of the brain and cannot survive without the brain" - All evidence points in this direction if you call it an assumption, then well, I guess by your standard we can at best only assume the earth is round, right?

"There are no spiritual things" - no proof, no evidence, why would you like people to change their minds on a subject without presenting them with some evidence?

"There is no afterlife, reincarnation, heaven, hell, purgatory etc..." Again what would you like to change about this one? You want people to presuppose these things exist or what?

I sincirely don't understand what's your problem with respect to those things.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 06:36:45 am by UnreasonableFaith »
You see a grammar or spelling error in my post? Feel free to point it out, I'm still learning.

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MarcA

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2016, 11:58:06 am »
@joppe

As I see it, most of the "assumptions" are not that clear and at least vague / discussible. UnreasonableFaith, for example, made a few claims I would wholeheartedly reject. For example atheism as the default mode or that there is no evidence for spiritual things, mind independent of brain or the afterlife.

Of course people evaluate evidence on the basis of prior experience. So we are not objective anyway and will debate about such points forever and ever.

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aleph naught

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Re: The assumptions of atheists
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2016, 12:17:34 pm »