maranatha33 wrote:
Mr. Redford;
Thank you for your response. Here are the points of contention...
Human logic does not apply to God. Christianity teaches that the way to know God is through Jesus Christ, not some man made logic.
Your above statement is a rejection of the traditional Christian doctrine on this matter. It is precisely because Christianity held that God is rational and that He never violates logic or natural law that natural science as a systematic discipline was developed. For history on this matter, see Sec. 6: "Science Comes Home" and the Glossary entry "miracle" of my article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything".
I'll also here note the irony of you making such an antirational argument on the ReasonableFaith.org forum, since Prof. William Lane Craig's life's work is in showing how logic, reason and science demonstrate God's existence and the truth of Christianity. Or maybe that's not ironic, as perhaphs you came to this forum in order to argue against Craig's intellectual program.
As well, if logic could actually be violated, then no coherent argument could ever be advanced for the truth of Christianity, since logic must be used in any argument.
Moreover, God is logic itself, as God is the Logos (John 1:1-5; cf. John 14:6), which means logic, computation, thought, reason, cogitation, ratiocination, cerebration, cognition, mentation. How can God violate Himself?
By definition, "supernatural" is beyond nature. Why would anything be beyond nature if it is natural?
God is beyond nature in the sense of beyond creation, i.e., spacetime. For more on this, see Sec. 7.3: "The Trinity of God" of my article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything". But this does not mean that God is unnatural, in the sense that He violates natural law.
My statement is Scriptural about obeying those that God has chosen to be in charge. ...
As God spoke to Hosea: "They set up kings, but not by Me; / They made princes, but I did not acknowledge them." (Hosea 8:4, New King James Version.)
Your error is in thinking that those who mortals on Earth call "authorities", "leaders" and "rulers" are considered to be so by God, but God as spoken to Hosea states that this is not the case. Jesus Christ also states that those who are government leaders are not true authorities as so regarded by God (Mark 10:42-45, New King James Version; cf. Matthew 18:4; 20:25-28; Mark 9:35; Luke 22:25,26):
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But Jesus called them to Himself and said to them, "You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant. And whoever of you desires to be first shall be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
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... Your implication that anything but the atonement of Christ is a determining factor in eternal judgment, is not Biblical.
Belief in Jesus Christ is the only thing that determines one's salvation.
Yet if one worships Satan and calls Satan by the name of "Jesus Christ", that is blasphemy. The only way one can worship Jesus Christ is to do so in actual fact, not with empty words (even if those empty words are spoken to oneself and believed by oneself).
If one does not follow the Command of Jesus Christ, then one does not actually believe in Jesus Christ. Instead, one believes in a lie. Attaching the name of "Jesus Christ" to this lie is of no help, as Jesus made clear (Matthew 7:21-27, New King James Version; cf. Luke 6:46-49):
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"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
"But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
""
When Jesus said of Himself, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6, New King James Version; cf. John 11:25), He was there being as literal as it is possible to be. In other words, the Second Person of the Trinity is literally truth itself, i.e., the Logos (see John 1:1-5).
That is to say, the only way one comes to the Father is through truth. The labels humans attach to various ideas and actions are irrelevant. What matters is the actual content of those ideas and actions. The only way one can actually believe in Jesus Christ is to follow His Command. If one does not follow His Command, then one believes not in Jesus Christ, but instead in a lie, no matter what labels one attaches to that lie.
And since Jesus's Command of the Golden Rule is a binary option--to not follow it is to do the opposite of it--such a lie is necessarily a Satanic lie. If one does not worship Jesus Christ in actual fact, then one worships Satan in actual fact.
For more on this, see Sec. 7.4.4: "The Soteriology of Existence" and Sec. 8.1.2: "Life with God" of my article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything".
Romans 13:1-7 is very clear on how we are to obey our appointed (by God Himself) leaders.
Then according to you, we are to obey Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, and Pol Pot among many other mass-murderers in history. The soldiers and police who carried out these mass-slaughters, tortures and rapes against innocent noncombatants were simply acting as good Christians--at least on this specific issue--by obeying their orders.
Are we then also to obey the Beast govermment when it eventually calls on people to worship it and accept the Mark of the Beast?
Do you not see how you are advancing a pervertedly sick Satanic doctrine in the above? Are you given over to evil so completely that you think that said leaders were appointed by God such that the masses ought to rightfully follow them? Based upon the demonic doctrine that you are advancing here, you have learned nothing of substance from the life story of Jesus Christ, of which the central struggle throughout His ministry was that of overcoming the mortal "authorities", "leaders" and "rulers", of who eventually murdered Him.
Indeed, the cross upon which Jesus was hung is a device of overt government terrorism. Thus the Christian symbolism of the cross represents not merely triumph over death, but also triumph over government, even in death--making the Christian cross the ultimate anarchist symbol.
But as God the Father (see Hosea 8:4) and God the Son (see Matthew 7:21-27; cf. Luke 6:46-49) made clear, the government leaders are *not* appointed by God. Thus, your perverted Satanic doctrine goes directly against Scripture.
Your error is in assuming that those who fallen men consider to be "authorities", "leaders" and "rulers" are those who God rightfully considers to be so. I noticed that you have an intellectual inability to get past empty surface-labels and beliefs, which is a hallmark of a puerile mind. The idea that fallen humans could be mistaken as to who is a genuine authority--i.e., as so regarded by God--appare
ntly hasn't occurred to you.
In Romans 13 Paul uses deep Christian references to logically code his necessarily actual message, for Jesus Christ said that all who bear the sword do indeed bear it in vain (see Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10). So why is Paul seemingly here contradicting Jesus Christ's own teachings on this matter? In order to reconcile the apparent contradiction and hence to comprehend what Paul is in actuality saying here requires a firm understanding of early Christian terminology, such as used by Jesus and the original Church fathers. Paul is not talking about a literal sword, i.e., actual physical force, such as used by all the Earthly, mortal governments. Paul is talking about the Word of God (see Ephesians 6:17), which is the sword that Jesus Christ bears (see Matthew 10:34; Hebrews 4:12; Revelation 1:16; 19:15,21), and which figurative sword is none other than simply the truth. This is the only "sword" not borne in vain.
Paul elsewhere wrote that the only genuine potentate is Jesus Christ, saying that Jesus "is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords." (1 Timothy 6:15, New King James Version. Cf. 1 Timothy 1:17; Acts 17:6,7; James 4:12.) But true Christians, being members in the body of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 12:12–27; Romans 12:5; Ephesians 5:30), are co-potentates along with Jesus (see 1 Corinthians 6:1–8; Luke 12:57; 22:30; Revelation 5:10; Daniel 7:27)--but only insofar as they remain within the Spirit of Christ. If one were to pick up and use a literal sword, i.e., if one were to use actual aggressive physical force such as all the mortal, Earthly governments do, then one would be doing so in vain (see Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10), and would no longer be acting under the authority of Jesus as the only true potentate. In other words, we are to speak the hard, hated and dangerous truth, such as regarding the inherently diabolical nature of government. This is our sword, and it is the only sword which is not borne in vain.
That is to say, the only genuine authorities, leaders and rulers as so regarded by God are those who abide by Jesus Christ's Commandment of the Golden Rule. All governments are inherently Satanic because all governments do the opposite of the Golden Rule which Jesus Christ commanded as the supreme law: instead doing unto others as they would have others do unto them, they instead do unto others what they *do not* want others doing unto them (e.g., by using violence to compel people to pay taxes and to gain a coercive regional monopoly by excluding competitors, which are practices they treat as crimes if their subjects attempt to engage in them).
Your purpose will not save souls. It will condemn them. ...
You are the one who worships Satan and blasphemes God's name by calling Satan "Jesus Christ".
I worship Jesus Christ in actual fact, and I demand that others do so as well. Only by worshiping Christ can one be saved. But the only way one can genuinely worship Jesus Christ is by following His Command.
... Salvation is exclusively found in the propitiation of Jesus' sacrifice, and no human can save anybody...
In Sec. 8.2.2: "The Mark of the Beast" and Sec. 9: "The Omega Point Cosmology Vis-à-Vis the New Testament" of my article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything", I demonstrate that the events spoken of by the Messiah (see Matthew 24:1-25:46; Mark 13; Luke 21:5-36) and divinely imparted to John of Patmos (see Revelation) regarding the End Time tribulation are true and are going to take place. Jesus Christ said that no flesh would survive the tribulation during the End Time without His intervention, i.e., His Second Coming (see Matthew 24:22; Mark 13:20)--the aforecited sections demonstrate that this statement by Jesus is correct: the faithful's transformation into their immortal bodies and the foundation of Heaven on Earth will only come about due to Jesus Christ's Second Coming. See also pp. 8 and 11 within Sec. 2: "History of the Omega Point Cosmology" for further discussion on how the miracles of Jesus Christ are allowed within the known laws of physics.
To say there are experiments that determine that God exists according to the laws of physics is questionable at best.
It is precisely because Christianity held that God is rational and that He never violates logic or natural law that natural science as a systematic discipline was developed. The main motivating factor in the birth of empirical science was to better know the mind of God. For history on this matter, see Sec. 6: "Science Comes Home" and the Glossary entry "miracle" of my article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything".
Acts 2:21 “And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Romans 10:13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
The act of calling on the name of the Lord encompasses being "born again". That is His "Calling Card" if you will. If someone claims to be Christian, but is not born again (John 3:3) the Lord will not acknowledge him.
Then you're here agreeing with me that it's not the words that matter, but the actual substance of one's beliefs and actions which determine whether or not one is a genuine Christian. Jesus made clear that such is correct (Matthew 7:21-27, New King James Version; cf. Luke 6:46-49):
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"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
"But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
""
That is, the only way that one can genuinely "call upon the name of the Lord" (see Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13; Joel 2:32) is by following the Command of Jesus Christ (see Matthew 7:21-27; Luke 6:46-49).
2Tim 3:14-17. “But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
"God Breathed" by definition means perfect. If any interpretation of Scripture directly contradicts other Scripture, that interpretation is wrong.
Then per your above criteria, your interpretation of Scripture is wrong, since it directly contradicts Scripture. As God the Father (see Hosea 8:4) and God the Son (see Matthew 7:21-27; cf. Luke 6:46-49) made clear, the government leaders are *not* appointed by God.
The New Testament is quite clear that all the governments of the world are Satanic and are ruled by Satan, and that all of the rulers on the Earth face condemntation. During the Second Coming, all of the governments will be abolished by Jesus Christ and all of their leaders punished (see Sec. 20: "Jesus Will Overthrow All the Governments of the World and Punish All the Rulers in the Time of His Judgement (i.e., His Second Coming)" of my article "Jesus Is an Anarchist"). The following are some pertine
nt Biblical passages on this issue (New King James Version):
1 Corinthians 2:6-8: However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1 Corinthians 15:23,24: But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
2 Corinthians 4:3,4: But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Ephesians 6:12: For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Luke 4:5-8: Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, "All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours."
And Jesus answered and said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'" [See also Matt. 4:8-10.]
Revelation 13:2: Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon [Satan] gave him his power, his throne, and great authority [i.e., over all the governments of the earth].
John 12:31: [Jesus:] "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out."
John 14:30: [Jesus:] "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me."
John 16:8-11: [Jesus:] "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."
Revelation 19:19-21: And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest [i.e., all the kings of the earth and their armies] were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Paul spent his entire ministry in rebellion against government "authorities" and was continiously in and out of prisons. So Paul himself obviously had no qualms about disobeying government "authorities".
Paul never said in Romans 13 to obey the mortal, pretended "authorities". Paul was referring to Jesus Christ in Romans 13, Who "is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords." (1 Timothy 6:15, New King James Version. Cf. 1 Timothy 1:17; Acts 17:6,7; James 4:12.) The "sword" spoken of by Paul here is not a literal sword--all of which indeed are borne in vain (see Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10)--but rather the Word of God (see Ephesians 6:17), which is the sword that Jesus Christ bears (see Matthew 10:34; Hebrews 4:12; Revelation 1:16; 19:15,21).
Nor did Paul ever say to pay taxes in Romans 13. Your error is in mistakenly thinking that something was said when in actuality it was never said. You're attributing to Scripture something which isn't there. Paul said "For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor" (Romans 13:6,7, New King James Version), which Paul immediately follows by writing (Romans 13:8-10, New King James Version),
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Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
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So according to Paul's immediate follow-up, taxes and customs aren't due to anyone.
For more on this subject, see Sec. 6: "On Paul, Romans 13 and Titus 3:1" of my following article:
James Redford, "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), Dec. 4, 2011 (orig. pub. at Anti-State.com on Dec. 19, 2001), doi:10.2139/ssrn.1337761, http://ssrn.com/abstract=1337761 , http://www.webcitation.org/66AF4TMv3 .
You have done an impressive amount of research, and quite a scholarly work. The problem is that you do not hold to the Truth of Scripture. ...
I hold to the truth of Scripture far more than you do. This is the problem with many who falsely call themselves "Christians": they feel perfectly free to ignore the teachings of Jesus Christ because that is how they were raised by this world, i.e., that one needn't actually take Jesus Christ's teachings seriously, since said teachings are incompatible with government and its frequent activities, e.g., taxes, war, the inversion of genuine moral understanding, the sowing of needless discord and strife among the populace (i.e., divide et impera), etc. Jesus anticipated the phenomenon of ersatz Christianity in Matthew 7:15-27; cf. Luke 6:46-49.
For more on this, see Sec. 7.4.2: "God's Relation to the Old Testament", Sec. 7.4.3: "Ha'Mashiach", Sec. 7.4.4: "The Soteriology of Existence" and Sec. 8.1.2: "Life with God" of my article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything". See also the below interview of and article on Rev. George B. Zabelka, the Catholic military chaplain who blessed the pilots who dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Emmanuel Charles McCarthy, interview of George B. Zabelka, "A Military Chaplain Repents", conducted ca. 1984; transcript available on the website of the Center for Christian Nonviolence, http://www.centerforchristiannonviolence.org/data/Media/Fr.%20George%20Zabekla%20Interview%20%5B02%5D.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5tsZZkQVM .
Emmanuel Charles McCarthy, "George Zabelka: A Man Transfigured", The Sign of Peace: Journal of the Catholic Peace Fellowship, Vol. 2, No. 3 (Ordinary Time 2003), pp. 4-5, http://www.catholicpeacefellowship.org/downloads/sopII3.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5tsZbKqQB .
... A question, “Have you been born again?” as Jesus commands (not suggests)
As I wrote in App. C: "Biography of the Author" of my article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything":
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Born in Austin, Texas and raised in the Leander, Texas hill country, James Redford is a born-again Christian who was converted from atheism by a direct revelation from Jesus Christ. He is a scientific rationalist who concludes that the Omega Point (i.e., the physicists' technical term for God) and the Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE) are an unavoidable result of the known laws of physics.
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Your whole dissertation can be Biblically summed u
p in one word. That is "works".
Eph 2:8,9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Isa 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts (works) are like filthy rags;
“Works” will not save. They are the fruit of those who have been saved, or the vain efforts of those who believe that they will save.
The basic Truths of Christianity;
God in Christ created all things.
Man rebelled against God, causing separation from God, and the introduction of evil into what God had made "good".
God promised a Savior to atone for this sin. He gave over 300 Messianic Prophecies in the Old Testament to identify the Savior.
Jesus Christ is that Savior.
His blood is the atonement for our sins.
We can only receive this atonement by dying to self, and being made alive in Christ. This is known as being born again.
Works ranging from "good deeds" to “scholarly writings” will not save.
As the Bible clearly says... Sola Fida, faith alone... through Sola Scriptura, the Scriptures alone, is the only way for salvation.
Faith, and only faith in Christ, is the exclusive path to salvation…
Christ said that one must be born again to enter the kingdom of God (see John 3:3,7; cf. 1 Peter 1:23). But the only way in which one can be born again is by rejecting the inequities of this world and abiding in Christ's Command. If one does not follow the Command of Jesus Christ, then one does not actually believe in Jesus Christ. Instead, one believes in a lie. Attaching the name of "Jesus Christ" to this lie is of no help, as Jesus made clear (Matthew 7:21-27, New King James Version; cf. Luke 6:46-49):
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"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
"But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
""