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Nature of God

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AllisOne

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Is God objectively good?
« on: March 03, 2016, 11:35:32 pm »
I believe in God of infinite consciousness.. the experiential qualities of this being ..i.e. His own experience  (as of Eastern philosophy) are - existence, consciousness and bliss..

I question the Western belief that God is good.

 "Good" is a value judgement made us.. and only seves us humans.. yes objectively on a human level rape of a child is bad.. but what about on levels non human.. after all God is God of all.. and if God is good.. then He should be good to all.

Say for example that a highly intelligent race of aliens were to land on earth and decide that the brains of humans were nutritious and delicious and were to treat us as we treat cows or pigs..Would God still be seen as good?



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Atheist in Louisiana

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Re: Is God objectively good?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2016, 01:08:36 am »
The Christians will tell you that their god is defined as being good, so anything that god does is good.  That would include commanding murder and rape or wiping out the entire world's population in a flood. 

I'm atheist, so there isn't a god for me to call good.  If there was a god, its goodness would be just as subjective as your goodness or my goodness.  Just being a god doesn't make you objective.
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kravarnik

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Re: Is God objectively good?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2016, 04:42:59 am »
The Christians will tell you that their god is defined as being good, so anything that god does is good.  That would include commanding murder and rape or wiping out the entire world's population in a flood. 

I'm atheist, so there isn't a god for me to call good.  If there was a god, its goodness would be just as subjective as your goodness or my goodness.  Just being a god doesn't make you objective.

Just like a ruler is defined as the measurement of distance, and when it measures 6cm between two points, it means it really is 6m.

That same way with God - if He indeed is the Good, then it logically follows that what God commands is good in virtue of God's essential being. Much like when the ruler shows 6cm between two points, then it means that's the objective distance between them. So, when God says murder is bad, it's objective in that sense.


Also, murder means to kill without a justification, so I don't think God would command murder(to kill someone for no reason) at any rate. That would seem to go against His nature, as rational and morally perfect being. It is akin to saying that the judge, who sentences the criminal to a death sentence, does murder. No, that's a punishment, which comes with the justification that the criminal has made himself worthy of death.

The flood and God commanding the Israelites to slay certain surrounding tribes usually comes with such justification. But, these cannot be called murder at any rate, because the justification is in the very text itself and you're somehow beggin the question in defining this as murder. Now, you may disagree with the reasons(justifcation) given, but it doesn't mean it's murder.
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

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Davidson

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Re: Is God objectively good?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2016, 10:31:20 am »

Also, murder means to kill without a justification, so I don't think God would command murder(to kill someone for no reason) at any rate. That would seem to go against His nature, as rational and morally perfect being.

He commanded Abraham to kill his son Isaac for no other reason than to prove Abraham's loyalty.

It is akin to saying that the judge, who sentences the criminal to a death sentence, does murder. No, that's a punishment, which comes with the justification that the criminal has made himself worthy of death.

The difference is the criminal was part of a hearing where evidence was presented to determine his guilt. The main reason death is justified as a punishment by the Christian god is because he says so. For any or no reason.

Gen 38: He kills Judah's son Er because he was "wicked in the eyes of the Lord." Doesn't elaborate any further on Er's crimes. Onan who was Er's brother is now tasked with impregnating his sister in-law, but refuses to do so. This was also "wicked in the eyes of the Lord" and Onan was killed.

This is a common theme throughout the Bible and says to me that whatever is good or evil to the Christian god is whatever he tells you it is. That's definitely not how morality should work.

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CatJo

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Re: Is God objectively good?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 07:41:47 am »
There are many things we can't understand because of our own limitations. God doesn't have any of those limitations.  Many things that look hideous to us have resulted in good, do result in good, and will result in good. God isn't limited to this space time continuum.  He can see all of time.  (He sees the end from the beginning)  We don't. I think the flood is an excellent example of God's goodness.  In what kind of world would we find ourselves if God hadn't started over with perfect genetics and a just man.  I daresay, that kind of world would be much more hideous, even if human beings , made in the image of God,  still existed. (And I doubt they would) than the flood.   In love and goodness, He destroyed the world that then was,  allowing us the great blessing to live, and move, and have our existence, even abundantly in Jesus Christ.  Sure looks like love to me.  Love for us!

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Is God objectively good?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2019, 11:17:04 am »
Say we acknowledge for the sake of argument that a malicious Creator/Designer exists. Seeing as this being is evil, that signifies he does not carry out his moral responsibilities. But then exactly where do those come from? Just how can this evil god receive obligations to execute which he is violating? Who prohibits him to do the immoral things that he does?

Without hesitation, we discover that such an evil being simply cannot be supreme: there needs to be a being that is even higher than this evil god which is the source of the moral duties which he prefers to shirk, a being that is unqualified goodness Himself. Hence, if god is evil well then there must necessarily exist a maximally splendid, incomparable God that is all powerful, all good as well as all loving; One who is actually the very paradigm of good.
 
Which means that we don’t shower Him with affection for performing His duty. Really He is to be adored for His moral identity as He is fundamentally loving, just, kind, and so on. It is simply because God is that way that all these traits count as virtues to start with. In effect, God Almighty is good the very same way rain is wet, diamond gemstones are hard, photons tear across space at luminous speeds or cerulean suns blaze. Therefore if we envision God’s goodness in terms of His possessing definite virtues as opposed to fulfilling selected duties, we get an infinitely more exalted and correct notion of God.
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

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jayceeii

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Re: Is God objectively good?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2019, 06:35:44 pm »
Say we acknowledge for the sake of argument that a malicious Creator/Designer exists. Seeing as this being is evil, that signifies he does not carry out his moral responsibilities. But then exactly where do those come from? Just how can this evil god receive obligations to execute which he is violating? Who prohibits him to do the immoral things that he does?

Without hesitation, we discover that such an evil being simply cannot be supreme: there needs to be a being that is even higher than this evil god which is the source of the moral duties which he prefers to shirk, a being that is unqualified goodness Himself. Hence, if god is evil well then there must necessarily exist a maximally splendid, incomparable God that is all powerful, all good as well as all loving; One who is actually the very paradigm of good.
 
Which means that we don’t shower Him with affection for performing His duty. Really He is to be adored for His moral identity as He is fundamentally loving, just, kind, and so on. It is simply because God is that way that all these traits count as virtues to start with. In effect, God Almighty is good the very same way rain is wet, diamond gemstones are hard, photons tear across space at luminous speeds or cerulean suns blaze. Therefore if we envision God’s goodness in terms of His possessing definite virtues as opposed to fulfilling selected duties, we get an infinitely more exalted and correct notion of God.
This might be taken as mm’s argument that no one created God, but a general flaw among religionists has been trying to recreate God in their own image, by imagination. Another flaw is attempts at flattery, that are scattered across the heavens in hopes someone with power is attending and will bestow the rewards that are expected. Here, I’d lament that none of God’s virtues have been listed in religion, or even those of a selfless person such as an angel. Any virtues listed are devoid of practical import that could prevent a war, preserve the planet, or establish genuine harmony between the families. No one asks me what these are because I’ve found no one seriously interested in religion.