...Fair enough - let's see here.I don't believe I struggled with the question, nor did I think it was rhetorical - the 'but if not God, what?' question is something that happens a lot, and I don't think it's a fair question.
...Just because we can't answer something doesn't mean that we jump to the idea of a god.
...Also, I apologize for referencing google so much....
...When you said "it's fair to say," that's still an assertion, and I was simply replying to it. I wasn't attacking you for saying it was mandatory, I was simply responding to the assertion.
...As far as your assertion of cause-effect, of course we have evidence of that. I can't deny that, it happens every day. However, it seems a leap to most atheists to say "I see cause and effect in my every day life. The universe must have been caused, therefore god." It's just not good enough evidence. Hell, it isn't really evidence at all.
QuoteSecond, everything that has a beginning, has an end. Why believe this?
Second, everything that has a beginning, has an end.
Not everything HAS to have a beginning so there goes your idea that everything which comes into (what we call) existence necessarily therefore HAS to have an end as well.
Quote from: Lion IRC on December 06, 2012, 04:42:21 pmNot everything HAS to have a beginning so there goes your idea that everything which comes into (what we call) existence necessarily therefore HAS to have an end as well.Whether or not it HAS to have a beginning is irrelevant. The fact remains.
God being timeless sans creation. Interesting hypothesis but lacking any evidence whatsoever. And isn't that one of Craig's biggest qualms with the infinite number of universes randomly possessing values and properties for permitting life?...
Now you're making a strawman argument. While I believe the universe did have a beginning, I don't know this to be fact.
...And if you re-watch the Craig/Hitchens debate, you'll see that one of Craigs objections to the infinite multiverse idea is that we can't observe it. There's no evidence for it.