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veka

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #195 on: July 21, 2013, 05:09:35 pm »
We who know what the Bible teaches (as opposed to what Christendom teaches) understand that the trinity is an invented nonsense.

So you are saying that you who know what the Bible teaches understand that the Bible is nonsensical.  ::)

It is a blasphemous teaching that is insulting to Jesus as Jehovah's most trusted and faithful servant and to the Most High God who has no equal.

So you are saying that the Bible is blasphemous.  :o

Can you say that this illustration you posted is from the Bible, or is this the same as evolution portraying early man as part ape when they have no such evidence? Christendom gave you this concept, NOT the Bible...do you understand this?  ???

The concept which is based on the clear biblical evidence.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 05:11:22 pm by veka »
"Denial of knowledge of God is only as cogent as the conception of knowledge on which it is based." - William P. Alston

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #196 on: July 21, 2013, 05:10:32 pm »
@Jem

exactly, its an embarrassment to Jesus and pretty much is calling him a liar.

Every time someone asked, "what religion is correct?"

the obvious reply is "the one Jesus and his disciples taught"

then they go, "but my pastor says this and that"
"does it say this and that in the Bible?"
"No"

"Here's your sign"

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veka

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #197 on: July 21, 2013, 05:14:48 pm »
You are rejecting and resisting God's word. That is so sad. :(

Repent and believe in the testimony of the Bible. Forsake those man-made doctrines.
"Denial of knowledge of God is only as cogent as the conception of knowledge on which it is based." - William P. Alston

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #198 on: July 21, 2013, 05:21:18 pm »
The concept which is based on the clear biblical evidence.


Problem is, the Bible unmistakably teaches otherwise: 
  • "There is actually to us one God the Father." - 1 Corinthians 8:6
  • "And now, O Jehovah, you are our Father." - Isaiah 64:8
  • "You, O Jehovah, are our Father." - Isaiah 63:16
  • "Is it to Jehovah that YOU keep doing this way, O people stupid and not wise? Is he not your Father[?]" - Deuteronomy 32:6
  • "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power because you created all things, and because of your will+ they existed and were created.”" - Revelation 4:11
  • "Do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One." - Matthew 23:9
  • "“Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us?" - Malachi 2:10
  • "Know that Jehovah is God." - Psalm 100:3
  • "Jehovah is in truth God. He is the living God." - Jeremiah 10:10
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 05:23:37 pm by Maxximiliann »
May the “God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory . . . give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him." -Ephesians 1:17

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veka

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #199 on: July 21, 2013, 05:27:14 pm »
Problem is, the Bible teaches otherwise

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
"Denial of knowledge of God is only as cogent as the conception of knowledge on which it is based." - William P. Alston

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Jem

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #200 on: July 21, 2013, 05:48:25 pm »
You are rejecting and resisting God's word. That is so sad. :(

Repent and believe in the testimony of the Bible. Forsake those man-made doctrines.

O dear  :-[

veka, the word of God was corrupted a very long time ago. What you believe is a corruption...it is not truth.

The trinity is a man made doctrine....so is hellfire....so is immortality of the soul. None of these are taught in the Bible. Even the cross is pagan.
They were all introduced long after Jesus and the Bible writers died. The foretold apostasy took place just as it was foretold. These teachings were a product of that apostasy.
They have been around so long that no one wants to question them.

If the foundations of your faith are faulty, you building will not withstand the storm that is coming.

Pleas do some research and you will see that your faith is misplaced and you worship is going to the wrong god.  :(
"the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace" Psalm 37:11

Unless otherwise stated, all quoted material taken from WTBTS sources. jw.org

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #201 on: July 21, 2013, 06:01:47 pm »
Problem is, the Bible teaches otherwise

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
Your quarrel is with God, not me. It is his Word that states:

  • "There is actually to us one God the Father." - 1 Corinthians 8:6
  • "And now, O Jehovah, you are our Father." - Isaiah 64:8
  • "You, O Jehovah, are our Father." - Isaiah 63:16
  • "Is it to Jehovah that YOU keep doing this way, O people stupid and not wise? Is he not your Father[?]" - Deuteronomy 32:6
  • "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power because you created all things, and because of your will+ they existed and were created.”" - Revelation 4:11
  • "Do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One." - Matthew 23:9
  • "“Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us?" - Malachi 2:10
  • "Know that Jehovah is God." - Psalm 100:3
  • "Jehovah is in truth God. He is the living God." - Jeremiah 10:10
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 06:04:21 pm by Maxximiliann »
May the “God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory . . . give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him." -Ephesians 1:17

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lapwing

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #202 on: July 21, 2013, 06:08:25 pm »
Quote from: God is Good
For those who keep saying he is God, provide scripture that backs that up.
Have you read and thought about the OPs to this thread? The fact that you are confusing the Father with Jehovah strongly suggests you haven't.

According to your thesis the reference to Jesus as "the only begotten God" in Jn 1:18 proves he is God.

Jem,
Philippians 2:6 tells us that Jesus didn't regard the equality with God that he had, as something to be "prized" rather than come to earth to save us. He voluntarily gave up his majesty to be born as a human baby.

"Show us the trinity in scripture." Hypocritical given your refusal to respond to the OPs of this thread

"show us where "theos" is ever used with reference to the holy spirit?"
3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” Acts 5:3,4 NIV
God here is theos

This is in post #233 of "God and the lamb" another post you have refused to reply to. Btw if the Holy Spirit is a force and not a person then how can you lie to it.
"I lied to the west wind" - that doesn't work does it.

Quote from: Jem
Can you say that this illustration you posted is from the Bible
Earlier you asked me whether I had read any JW literature in the past. I have but can you explain to me why Watchtower/Awake pictures of Jesus and other Bible characters look like they have just stepped out of a 1950s N American TV advert. They never look Jewish i.e. Semitic. Are the JWs racially prejudiced?

Maxx
Quotes from the discredited NWT I suppose.
All these quotes say is that Jehovah was thought to be a father to the Israel. There are other scriptures that indicate Jehovah was a mother to Israel as well:

Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! Is 49:15 NIV

You only quoted part of the verse in 1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

The word for "Lord" here is used throughout the Septuagint for Jehovah.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 06:11:12 pm by lapwing »
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #203 on: July 21, 2013, 06:09:44 pm »
You are rejecting and resisting God's word. That is so sad. :(

Repent and believe in the testimony of the Bible. Forsake those man-made doctrines.

veka, the word of God was corrupted a very long time ago.


If I may, Jehovah God's word remains as true today as it was when first recorded. I think what you're trying to communicate is that many have gnarled and contorted God's teachings or that many have tried to corrupt God's Word with their specious philosophies, yes? :)
May the “God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory . . . give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him." -Ephesians 1:17

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #204 on: July 21, 2013, 06:10:40 pm »
Problem is, the Bible teaches otherwise

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.

No offense but plenty of us have scripture to support what we say, where is yours?

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veka

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #205 on: July 21, 2013, 06:14:29 pm »
lapwing, that is pointless. They don't listen sound biblical reasoning.

John 8:24 Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.
"Denial of knowledge of God is only as cogent as the conception of knowledge on which it is based." - William P. Alston

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #206 on: July 21, 2013, 06:26:38 pm »
Quote from: God is Good
For those who keep saying he is God, provide scripture that backs that up.
Have you read and thought about the OPs to this thread? The fact that you are confusing the Father with Jehovah strongly suggests you haven't.

According to your thesis the reference to Jesus as "the only begotten God" in Jn 1:18 proves he is God.

Quote from: GiG
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Jem,
Philippians 2:6 tells us that Jesus didn't regard the equality with God that he had, as something to be "prized" rather than come to earth to save us. He voluntarily gave up his majesty to be born as a human baby.
Quote from: GiG
Philippians 2:5-6
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

Quote from: GiG
Acts 5:3-4
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

That clear never says that Jesus is God and is also the Holy Spirit

So basically, if you steal and I say "how can you steal before God?"
That means I am God now too?
Remember God sees all, which was the point Peter was making.

Now, I rebutted your indirect quoting of scripture, specially for the fact you used the NIV which has tons of misinterpretations and twisting of the original text.
The King James version is the only version translated word for word and not twisted.

No one has even tried to refute all the scripture I posted.
Why is that?

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #207 on: July 21, 2013, 06:34:50 pm »
Quote from: God is Good
For those who keep saying he is God, provide scripture that backs that up.
The fact that you are confusing the Father with Jehovah strongly suggests you haven't.


Are you seriously calling Almighty God a liar?
  • "There is actually to us one God the Father." - 1 Corinthians 8:6
  • "And now, O Jehovah, you are our Father." - Isaiah 64:8
  • "You, O Jehovah, are our Father." - Isaiah 63:16
  • "Is it to Jehovah that YOU keep doing this way, O people stupid and not wise? Is he not your Father[?]" - Deuteronomy 32:6
  • "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power because you created all things, and because of your will+ they existed and were created.”" - Revelation 4:11
  • "Do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One." - Matthew 23:9
  • "“Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us?" - Malachi 2:10
  • "Know that Jehovah is God." - Psalm 100:3
  • "Jehovah is in truth God. He is the living God." - Jeremiah 10:10
Quote
According to your thesis the reference to Jesus as "the only begotten God" in Jn 1:18 proves he is God.


God was created? Who created God?


Quote
God here is theos
Keep reading. "“Why was it agreed upon between you two to make a test of the spirit of Jehovah?”" - Acts 5:9


Quote
Quotes from the discredited NWT I suppose.
Argumentum ad veneficium fontem. You really don't think only the NWT employs God's personal name, "Jehovah", throughout, do you?


A better question is, why do you insist on relying on Bible versions that have been disparaged as poor translations of the original Bible languages? These mendaciously render יְהוָ֑ה as "LORD" when the Hebrew word for "Lord" is אדני – "Adonai".


May the “God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory . . . give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him." -Ephesians 1:17

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #208 on: July 21, 2013, 06:35:58 pm »
lapwing, that is pointless. They don't listen sound biblical reasoning.

John 8:24 Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

You completely left out where Jesus explained who HE WAS and IS
John 8:24-28
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

again with twisted scripture.
Jesus clearly was telling them he was relaying what God told him, never did he say he was God, he said he was the son of God.

so yah, why haven't anyone refuted my QUOTING OF SCRIPTURE?
and can only post tidbits of scripture and use unreliable translations and purposely leave out the rest of what Jesus says, that show what is actually being discussed?

@Maxximiliann
Nothing you posted says Jesus is God, everything I posted proves Jesus is the son of God.
nearly all your scripture is referring to God and is from the Old Testament, long before Jesus even came.
Again, everything you posted is in reference to God himself, none in reference to Jesus.
You are the one lying before God.

why have you not rebutted all the evidence of scripture that I posted showing Jesus talking to God as a third person?

No one has even taken one stab at my numerous posts.
Why is this?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 06:44:16 pm by God Is Good »

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Curt J. O'Brian

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #209 on: July 21, 2013, 06:43:28 pm »
Huh?

How can someone say they agree that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are three different people, then in the next breathe say that they are not?

But no one says that... We say they're three persons, and one being. God is one being, who is three persons. You hand is one hand, with five fingers. Understand?

Quote
So if you wish to assert Jesus and God are the same person, then who was he talking to and praying to through out his walk on earth?
the only other option is that he was bi-polar and talk to himself as a third person.

God is not a person on the Trinitarian view, that is not what Trinitarians say.

Quote
If you wish to believe otherwise, I cant stop you, and since we are all repeating ourselves.

case closed, I win  ;D

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Lol... Gypsy, you're attacking a view that is not Trinitarian. You can't win against someone you're not even fighting. You're saying that the father and the son are distinct people, which is exactly what Trinitarians say.

"Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him.”
–Napoleon Bonaparte I