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Jem

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #240 on: July 22, 2013, 10:35:28 pm »

Be a great world if we could all do the above.

Snooch, Jehovah's Witnesses already live like that. It is our choice to obey the commands of our God, Jehovah through the teachings of his Christ. It doesn't mean that we do it perfectly yet...no man does.  :(

Quote
Father forgive me, I am a sinner.

Yes indeed.   :-[

If we sin because of an error in judgment or a bad decision, which as imperfect humans we do often, then we can ask forgiveness on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice. We cannot, however use our imperfection as an excuse not to try hard every day to be obedient. That would be taking Jesus' priceless gift and making a mockery of it. We can never presume on that forgiveness, nor can we ever take it for granted. Once we accept Jesus as our savior, we are under obligation to obey him. (Heb 10:26, 27)  :-\





« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 05:04:50 am by Jem »
"the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace" Psalm 37:11

Unless otherwise stated, all quoted material taken from WTBTS sources. jw.org

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Snoochies

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #241 on: July 22, 2013, 10:43:12 pm »

Be a great world if we could all do the above.

Snooch, Jehovah's Witnesses already live like that. It is our choice to obey the commands of our God, Jehovah through the teachings of his Christ. It doesn't mean that we do it perfectly yet...no man does.  :(

Quote
Father forgive me, I am a sinner.

Yes indeed.   :-[

If we sin because of an error in judgment or a bad decision, which as imperfect humans we do often, then we can ask forgiveness on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice. We cannot, however use our imperfection as an excuse not to try hard every day to be obedient. That would be taking Jesus' priceless gift and making a mockery of it. We can never presume on that forgiveness, nor can we ever take it for granted. Once we accept Jesus as our savior, we are under obligation to obey him. (Heb 10:26, 27)  :-\

I agree and have seen many followers of Christ who do such things and I am humbled and amazed at the transformation that God has done in their lives.
"God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear." Psalm 46:1-2

* Forum members please note:- Just because I ask you lots of questions, this does not mean I know something better. I am merely asking to seek clarification and arrive at truth the best I can

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #242 on: July 22, 2013, 10:43:56 pm »
5 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.

The Beatitudes

He said:


3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
    for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light

13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce

31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths

33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Be a great world if we could all do the above.  :(

Father forgive me, I am a sinner.

applaud

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lapwing

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #243 on: July 23, 2013, 03:33:33 am »
Maxximiliann,
Quote
Starting to get the idea?
I see that you've moved the goalposts from talking about how the tetragrammaton is rendered throughout each Bible version to just one verse and we've moved from 38 languages to 11 - bit of a climb down eh!

Recall that this was prompted by your:
Quote
A better question is, why do you insist on relying on Bible versions that have been disparaged as poor translations of the original Bible languages? These mendaciously render יְהוָ֑ה as "LORD" when the Hebrew word for "Lord" is אדני – "Adonai".
Of course, other versions such as the KJV have been well and truly disparaged as well. Basing your argument on just one verse is extremely shallow - and its not a verse chosen at random either is it. The KJV renders the tetragrammaton as Jehovah only 7 times out of 6218 occurrences! It's highly likely that those few other non English versions were simply following the KJV's lead. In this verse the criterion used by the KJV translators was that "YHWH is used as God’s personal name." from http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/jehovah.asp.

Whether it was correct to treat this verse differently in this way is debatable.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 04:34:49 am by lapwing »
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Jem

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #244 on: July 23, 2013, 05:08:56 am »


If we sin because of an error in judgment or a bad decision, which as imperfect humans we do often, then we can ask forgiveness on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice. We cannot, however use our imperfection as an excuse not to try hard every day to be obedient. That would be taking Jesus' priceless gift and making a mockery of it. We can never presume on that forgiveness, nor can we ever take it for granted. Once we accept Jesus as our savior, we are under obligation to obey him. (Heb 10:26, 27)  :-\

I agree and have seen many followers of Christ who do such things and I am humbled and amazed at the transformation that God has done in their lives.

And in yours. But it's an ongoing, progressive learning curve. Like riding a bike...if you stop the forward momentum, you fall over  :P
"the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace" Psalm 37:11

Unless otherwise stated, all quoted material taken from WTBTS sources. jw.org

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #245 on: July 23, 2013, 05:59:14 am »


If we sin because of an error in judgment or a bad decision, which as imperfect humans we do often, then we can ask forgiveness on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice. We cannot, however use our imperfection as an excuse not to try hard every day to be obedient. That would be taking Jesus' priceless gift and making a mockery of it. We can never presume on that forgiveness, nor can we ever take it for granted. Once we accept Jesus as our savior, we are under obligation to obey him. (Heb 10:26, 27)  :-\

I agree and have seen many followers of Christ who do such things and I am humbled and amazed at the transformation that God has done in their lives.

And in yours. But it's an ongoing, progressive learning curve. Like riding a bike...if you stop the forward momentum, you fall over  :P

not for me, I am in the coasting downhill stage.

j/k I wish :(


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Asking_A_Question

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #246 on: July 23, 2013, 06:08:46 am »
I've been a bit busy lately. Has anyone engaged my exegesis? if so can you tell me the post number? Please and thanks.

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #247 on: July 23, 2013, 06:20:52 am »
@ Asking_A_Question

If you're bored, why not engage all the scripture I posted where Jesus talked to God as a third person and explain why he is doing that if he is God?

I posted them over, will add many more if you like.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
It doesn't say his Father does it?
So, this concludes The Father=God
Jesus said Father when he was praying to him and,
was referring to God, who is also our Father as well.
Which is exactly what scripture teaches.

Father and God are not two different being, it is the same being.

and Jesus Is Gods son
No where does Jesus ever claim to be God nor does the Bible assert that The Father and God are two separate beings.

Matthew 2436
But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
So if the Father is God and Jesus is also God,
How come Jesus says only The Father knows?
So, basically, Jesus is lying then?
If the Father The Holy Spirit and Jesus are all three separate beings, and all God,
then they should all know the hour and day, but Jesus asserts only God knows.

Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if you be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done
So who is he talking to, himself?

And here he explains where he will be sitting, next to God
How can he be sitting next to God is he is God?

Plus, what happened to The Father?

Matthew 26:64
Jesus saith to him: Thou hast said it. Nevertheless I say to you, hereafter you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the power of God and coming in the clouds of heaven.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 07:32:22 am by God Is Good »

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Asking_A_Question

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #248 on: July 23, 2013, 06:23:47 am »
You don't even understand what you are trying to argue against tbh. People have pointed this out and tried to help from what I've seen from my browsing.

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #249 on: July 23, 2013, 06:35:27 am »
You don't even understand what you are trying to argue against tbh. People have pointed this out and tried to help from what I've seen from my browsing.

No.

this thread is concluding that there are four beings
father, son, holy ghost and that all three are God.

No one has even tried to debate against anything I said.
those scriptures I just posted do not follow the conclusion that Jesus is God and that The Father and God are two separate beings.

My conclusions from what the Bible tells us is:
Father(God) Jesus(Gods Son) Holy Ghost(Gift from God)   

Not one person has pointed anything out to me that the scriptures I quote do not conclude what I am suggesting.
So I have no idea why you are saying they have.
I have asked over and over for someone to engage those scriptures.
None yet, but your saying they have?
SMH
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 07:34:23 am by God Is Good »

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #250 on: July 23, 2013, 07:39:13 am »

I see that you've moved the goalposts from talking about how the tetragrammaton is rendered throughout each Bible version to just one verse and we've moved from 38 languages to 11 - bit of a climb down eh!
Is your Google still broken? You really ought to get that looked into. Then you can do your own homework :)


Quote
The KJV renders the tetragrammaton as Jehovah only 7 times out of 6218 occurrences!
Which is why it's attempts to re-write the Bible are so very repugnant. To those who love truth, that is. Why do you insist on relying on it?


Quote
It's highly likely that those few other non English versions were simply following the KJV's lead.
Once you get your Google fixed you can research this. Then you can draw a conclusion based on the facts instead of misguided speculation.
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #251 on: July 23, 2013, 07:59:01 am »
No one has even tried to debate against anything I said.


Because they can't. Their whole "three distinct persons, one being" argument is twaddle. Especially since the Bible does not teach the existence of their fairy-tale "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit." To engage the Scripture you've highlighted is to risk recognizing they've been wrong all along and that by willfully rendering idolatrous worship to these false gods they've been insulting their Creator, The Father, Jehovah God and his Son, Christ Jesus.


In effect, you're asking them to realize they're the anti-Christ the Scriptures warned of. They never will because they're not humble enough to recognize their mistakes, repent from their sin and make peace with Jehovah God and Christ. In this way, they've sealed their own fate - everlasting death at Armageddon.







1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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Stephen

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #252 on: July 23, 2013, 08:03:27 am »
Whom then will in fact receive the inheritance of the kingdom, Max?

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veka

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #253 on: July 23, 2013, 08:07:12 am »
They never will because they're not humble enough to recognize their mistakes, repent from their sin and make peace with Jehovah God and Christ.

Very nice.
"Denial of knowledge of God is only as cogent as the conception of knowledge on which it is based." - William P. Alston

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #254 on: July 23, 2013, 08:31:54 am »
No one has even tried to debate against anything I said.


Because they can't. Their whole "three distinct persons, one being" argument is twaddle. Especially since the Bible does not teach the existence of their fairy-tale "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit." To engage the Scripture you've highlighted is to risk recognizing they've been wrong all along and that by willfully rendering idolatrous worship to these false gods they've been insulting their Creator, The Father, Jehovah God and his Son, Christ Jesus.


In effect, you're asking them to realize they're the anti-Christ the Scriptures warned of. They never will because they're not humble enough to recognize their mistakes, repent from their sin and make peace with Jehovah God and Christ. In this way, they've sealed their own fate - everlasting death at Armageddon.

Well, I cant argue with that, God said not to put no Gods before him and in fact anyone that does, is breaking one of God commandments.

I just assumed I was being ignored as I am most of the time on here because no one can understand me.

To be frank, I feel like I am loosing my mind.
In real life, no one likes me either.

I dont push God onto them though, what I do on line is strictly online.
I dont believe in Bible thumping those not interested in discussing it.
Jesus even warns of doing that.

I just figure out how asking a question told me that he been browsing his own thread and claims people have refuted my points, yet no one has.
One person did post scripture and when i refuted it, it was the last I heard.

Thanks for sticking up for me :)