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lapwing

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #255 on: July 23, 2013, 09:00:32 am »
Quote from: Maxximillian
Then you can do your own homework
You're the one who is trying to establish that these versions are "poor translations" so it's you that have homework to do. Initially you attacked the NIV now you're attacking the KJV. Make your mind up.

Quote
In effect, you're asking them to realize they're the anti-Christ the Scriptures warned of. They never will because they're not humble enough to recognize their mistakes, repent from their sin and make peace with Jehovah God and Christ. In this way, they've sealed their own fate - everlasting death at Armageddon.
compare with
always being prepared to make a defence to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, 1 Pet 3:15 ESV
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #256 on: July 23, 2013, 09:55:38 am »
Whom then will in fact receive the inheritance of the kingdom, Max?
All those that have been sealed by means of Jehovah God's holy spirit for this privilege. Romans 8:4,16,17 explicates, "“All who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.”"
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #257 on: July 23, 2013, 10:03:40 am »
You're the one who is trying to establish that these versions are "poor translations" so it's you that have homework to do. Initially you attacked the NIV now you're attacking the KJV. Make your mind up.
You yourself recognize that:
Quote
The KJV renders the tetragrammaton as Jehovah only 7 times out of 6218 occurrences!
What more do you need?

Quote
In effect, you're asking them to realize they're the anti-Christ the Scriptures warned of. They never will because they're not humble enough to recognize their mistakes, repent from their sin and make peace with Jehovah God and Christ. In this way, they've sealed their own fate - everlasting death at Armageddon.

compare with
always being prepared to make a defence to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, 1 Pet 3:15 ESV


compare with
"“If God were ​YOUR​ Father, ​YOU​ would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth. Why is it ​YOU​ do not know what I am speaking? Because ​YOU​ cannot listen to my word. YOU​ are from ​YOUR​ father the Devil, and ​YOU​ wish to do the desires of ​YOUR​ father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, ​YOU​ do not believe me. Who of ​YOU​ convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it ​YOU​ do not believe me? He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why ​YOU​ do not listen, because ​YOU​ are not from God.”" - John 8:42-44
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #258 on: July 23, 2013, 10:05:44 am »
No one has even tried to debate against anything I said.


Because they can't. Their whole "three distinct persons, one being" argument is twaddle. Especially since the Bible does not teach the existence of their fairy-tale "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit." To engage the Scripture you've highlighted is to risk recognizing they've been wrong all along and that by willfully rendering idolatrous worship to these false gods they've been insulting their Creator, The Father, Jehovah God and his Son, Christ Jesus.


In effect, you're asking them to realize they're the anti-Christ the Scriptures warned of. They never will because they're not humble enough to recognize their mistakes, repent from their sin and make peace with Jehovah God and Christ. In this way, they've sealed their own fate - everlasting death at Armageddon.

Well, I cant argue with that, God said not to put no Gods before him and in fact anyone that does, is breaking one of God commandments.

I just assumed I was being ignored as I am most of the time on here because no one can understand me.

To be frank, I feel like I am loosing my mind.
In real life, no one likes me either.

I dont push God onto them though, what I do on line is strictly online.
I dont believe in Bible thumping those not interested in discussing it.
Jesus even warns of doing that.

I just figure out how asking a question told me that he been browsing his own thread and claims people have refuted my points, yet no one has.
One person did post scripture and when i refuted it, it was the last I heard.

Thanks for sticking up for me :)


I always stick up for truth and those who speak it courageously :)
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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Stephen

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #259 on: July 23, 2013, 10:23:04 am »
Whom then will in fact receive the inheritance of the kingdom, Max?
All those that have been sealed by means of Jehovah God's holy spirit for this privilege. Romans 8:4,16,17 explicates, "“All who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.”"

Is this to say "Jehovah's witnesses?"  If so, those passages in Romans, or anywhere in the Bible, do not actually explicate that particular term, not unlike your arguments against the term "Trinity" appearing in the Bible (which I acknowledge is true).  Is there some justification then for this terminological concept that should so deem it set apart from the concept of "Trinity?"

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #260 on: July 23, 2013, 12:48:43 pm »
Whom then will in fact receive the inheritance of the kingdom, Max?
All those that have been sealed by means of Jehovah God's holy spirit for this privilege. Romans 8:4,16,17 explicates, "“All who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.”"

Is this to say "Jehovah's witnesses?"
Hebrews 11-12:1 identifies all of Jehovah God's sedulous worshipers as his witnesses. (Compare with Isaiah 43:10-12) Even Christ identifies himself as Jehovah's witness. (Revelation 3:14) With these facts in mind, of course, those who are to inherit the kingdom along with Christ are witnesses of Jehovah. Why wouldn't they be?
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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Stephen

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #261 on: July 23, 2013, 01:00:54 pm »
Because my point is nowhere does the term "Jehovah's witness" appear in the Bible, yet you conclude to this term based upon the concept being taught in Scripture.  Why then is the term "Trinity" unallowable when it itself is concluded to on the very same grounds?

(Sorry for getting my threads mixed up, this should probably belong in a "trinity" thread, though too fargone now)

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Asking_A_Question

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #262 on: July 23, 2013, 01:07:26 pm »
I've been a bit busy lately. Has anyone engaged my exegesis? if so can you tell me the post number? Please and thanks.

?

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JohnBee

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #263 on: July 23, 2013, 01:14:17 pm »
Because my point is nowhere does the term "Jehovah's witness" appear in the Bible, yet you conclude to this term based upon the concept being taught in Scripture.  Why then is the term "Trinity" unallowable when it itself is concluded to on the very same grounds?
Not sure if I understand this correctly, but are you implying that religious identities should be qualified in the Bible as with doctrines?



N.B. Trolls are neither interested nor committed to the truth!

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Stephen

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #264 on: July 23, 2013, 01:19:30 pm »
Because my point is nowhere does the term "Jehovah's witness" appear in the Bible, yet you conclude to this term based upon the concept being taught in Scripture.  Why then is the term "Trinity" unallowable when it itself is concluded to on the very same grounds?
Not sure if I understand this correctly, but are you implying that religious identities should be qualified in the Bible as with doctrines?

That was not what I was implying, though I admit I've never really thought about it in any depth.

What I am getting at is Biblical concepts, not religious identities per se, need not necessarily be declared so explicitly in the Bible in order to possibly be valid, biblical concepts; i.e.: Sola Scriptura.

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JohnBee

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #265 on: July 23, 2013, 03:17:21 pm »
What I am getting at is Biblical concepts, not religious identities per se, need not necessarily be declared so explicitly in the Bible in order to possibly be valid, biblical concepts; i.e.: Sola Scriptura.
From what I can see, I'm really not sure how well such a mindset holds-up. ie. the Bible seems unyielding with regards to belief and worship. To which I'd add, would have a major impact on Christian doctrines as a whole. That being said, while I'd agree that the word Trinity does not appear anywhere in the Bible, I'd also point-out that the Bible does not seem to support Trinitarian worship either. ie. true worship was not subject to a Trinitarian worship in the OT which was exclusively monotheistic in nature. And so for me, I find both the label and supporting evidence to be missing.
N.B. Trolls are neither interested nor committed to the truth!

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God Is Good

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #266 on: July 23, 2013, 03:36:18 pm »
I really wished I remembered these things better.

The apostolic faith church I used to attend, the pastor taught that Jesus said what the house of God shall be called and in Revelations the 7 seals represents the 7 churches that will all be judged.

I just woke up, and did a little digging and the best I can come up with is this verse:

Luke 19:46
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

And that is what the name of their church was
"House of Prayer"

Now, his grandson also firmly believes that the only true faith is the,
Apostolic Faith as well
and that is what they call their church
Apostolic Faith Church
I do not remember why they call their church that, but I do remember very compelling evidence in Acts that support this.

Also, I was shown which church is which, as Revelations discusses them with the 7 seals.
But I fail to remember that, nor do I feel I should be judging each doctrine because I may be wrong.


But here is where I stand, I have went to church on and off my whole life and have never felt the Holy Spirit as I do when I walk into an Apostolic Faith Church.
I felt the Holy Spirit enter my body and it changed me forever.

In the end, we are to do what the Bible teaches, we are not to add words, nor take them away.

Just like science, if a theory does not work 100% of the time it is thrown out.

If each and every word of God does not fit in your doctrine then your doctrine is wrong.

Even if scripture suggests something relevant to your doctrine, it means nothing if other scripture contradicts your doctrine.

Huge example

Exodus 20:4
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

That means exactly what it says.
But does man listen?
Man worships photo's of Jesus, statues, crosses, photos of Mary, symbols of Mary, and the list goes on and on.
Even those who have logo's of their sports team on their wall and actually look at it and pray to God their team wins are graven images.


We all need to get together, study scripture and teach each other what is going on and fix the madness, at least for ourselves.

One of the reasons I do not go to church is because of all the false teachings.

So we ignore scripture that contradicts our doctrine and do it anyway?

« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 03:39:39 pm by God Is Good »

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Jem

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #267 on: July 23, 2013, 04:28:08 pm »
I really wished I remembered these things better.

The apostolic faith church I used to attend, the pastor taught that Jesus said what the house of God shall be called and in Revelations the 7 seals represents the 7 churches that will all be judged.

I just woke up, and did a little digging and the best I can come up with is this verse:

Luke 19:46
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

And that is what the name of their church was
"House of Prayer"

Now, his grandson also firmly believes that the only true faith is the,
Apostolic Faith as well
and that is what they call their church
Apostolic Faith Church
I do not remember why they call their church that, but I do remember very compelling evidence in Acts that support this.

Also, I was shown which church is which, as Revelations discusses them with the 7 seals.
But I fail to remember that, nor do I feel I should be judging each doctrine because I may be wrong.


But here is where I stand, I have went to church on and off my whole life and have never felt the Holy Spirit as I do when I walk into an Apostolic Faith Church.
I felt the Holy Spirit enter my body and it changed me forever.

In the end, we are to do what the Bible teaches, we are not to add words, nor take them away.

Just like science, if a theory does not work 100% of the time it is thrown out.

If each and every word of God does not fit in your doctrine then your doctrine is wrong.

Even if scripture suggests something relevant to your doctrine, it means nothing if other scripture contradicts your doctrine.

Huge example

Exodus 20:4
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

That means exactly what it says.
But does man listen?
Man worships photo's of Jesus, statues, crosses, photos of Mary, symbols of Mary, and the list goes on and on.
Even those who have logo's of their sports team on their wall and actually look at it and pray to God their team wins are graven images.


We all need to get together, study scripture and teach each other what is going on and fix the madness, at least for ourselves.

One of the reasons I do not go to church is because of all the false teachings.

So we ignore scripture that contradicts our doctrine and do it anyway?

GiG, it seems as if your spiritual vision is gaining much clarity.  :)

You know that the trials of this life are fighting with what you know life should be in your own heart. We are programmed for a very different life. One without a knowledge of evil and without those who practise it to the detriment of others.

False religion saturates this world and offends the one who gave us life....but not for much longer.

A world without evil is promised under the rule of God's kingdom. Read Rev 21:1-4 and see that when "new Jerusalem" (God's kingdom) rules the earth, all causes of pain and suffering that are part of satan's world will have "passed away."

I see from your posts that you desire for the evil in this world to be eliminated, by force if necessary. That is exactly what will happen. The kingdom will "come" and take over the reins of earth's rulership, "crushing" the present corrupt human kingdoms out of existence. (Dan 2:44) But humans will not need to lift a finger in order to bring it about. All we have to do is sound the warning like Noah did, knowing that the majority will not listen. (Matt 24:36-39)  :( We offer men the solution, but they want it only on their own terms.

If you would like to study the Bible for yourself, contact Jehovah's Witnesses and ask for a Bible study. There is no cost or obligation, and you can have all your questions answered from your own Bible in the privacy of your own home. The truth will set you free!

The life that is programmed into your heart is not far away. Please pray about it and follow the lead of Jehovah's spirit.

You are in my prayers also.  ;)
"the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace" Psalm 37:11

Unless otherwise stated, all quoted material taken from WTBTS sources. jw.org

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Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #268 on: July 23, 2013, 04:42:34 pm »
Whom then will in fact receive the inheritance of the kingdom, Max?
All those that have been sealed by means of Jehovah God's holy spirit for this privilege. Romans 8:4,16,17 explicates, "“All who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.”"

Is this to say "Jehovah's witnesses?"  If so, those passages in Romans, or anywhere in the Bible, do not actually explicate that particular term, not unlike your arguments against the term "Trinity" appearing in the Bible (which I acknowledge is true).  Is there some justification then for this terminological concept that should so deem it set apart from the concept of "Trinity?"


Hebrews 11-12:1 identifies all of Jehovah God's sedulous worshipers as his witnesses. (Compare with Isaiah 43:10-12) Even Christ identifies himself as Jehovah's witness. (Revelation 3:14) With these facts in mind, of course, those who are to inherit the kingdom along with Christ are witnesses of Jehovah. Why wouldn't they be?
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

14

Maxximiliann

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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Jesus is God?
« Reply #269 on: July 23, 2013, 04:51:58 pm »
What I am getting at is Biblical concepts, not religious identities per se, need not necessarily be declared so explicitly in the Bible in order to possibly be valid, biblical concepts; i.e.: Sola Scriptura.
From what I can see, I'm really not sure how well such a mindset holds-up. ie. the Bible seems unyielding with regards to belief and worship. To which I'd add, would have a major impact on Christian doctrines as a whole. That being said, while I'd agree that the word Trinity does not appear anywhere in the Bible, I'd also point-out that the Bible does not seem to support Trinitarian worship either. ie. true worship was not subject to a Trinitarian worship in the OT which was exclusively monotheistic in nature. And so for me, I find both the label and supporting evidence to be missing.


Correct! The Israelites' worship was absolutely Unitarian. When they deviated from this they suffered Jehovah God's disfavor and adverse judgment.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 05:06:26 pm by Maxximiliann »
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8