Christ explicated, "For even the Son of man came  to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” - Mark 10:45
Just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.
For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law. Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam, who bears a resemblance to him that was to come.
But it is not with the gift as it was with the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift with the undeserved kindness by the one man Jesus Christ abounded much more to many.
Also, it is not with the free gift as it was with the way things worked through the one [man] that sinned. For the judgment resulted from one trespass in condemnation, but the gift resulted from many trespasses in a declaration of righteousness.
For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ.
So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous for life. For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were constituted sinners, likewise also through the obedience of the one [person] many will be constituted righteous.
As we all know, Adam sold himself to do evil for the selfish pleasure of keeping continued company with his wife, now a sinful transgressor,
so he shared the same condemned standing with her before God.
He thereby sold himself and his descendants into slavery to sin and to death, the price that God’s justice required.
hence, it was “not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats [actually] to take sins away,” as the apostle points out. (Heb 10:1-4)
He would have to correspond to the perfect Adam and possess human perfection, if he were to pay the price of redemption that would release Adam’s offspring from the debt, disability, and enslavement into which their first father Adam had sold them. (Compare Ro 7:14; Ps 51:5.)
Only thereby could he satisfy God’s perfect justice that requires like for like, a ‘soul for a soul.’—Ex 21:23-25; De 19:21.
However, this results in the magnifying of God’s own love and mercy in that he met his own requirements at tremendous cost to himself, giving the life of his own Son to provide the redemption price. (Ro 5:6-8)
This required his Son’s becoming human to correspond to the perfect Adam.
The Christian Greek Scriptures make clear that the release from sin and death is indeed by the paying of a price.
Thus Christ “gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.” (1Ti 2:5, 6)
Under the Law the deliberate murderer could not be ransomed. Adam, by his willful course, brought death on all mankind, hence was a murderer. (Ro 5:12) Thus, the sacrificed life of Jesus is not acceptable to God as a ransom for the sinner Adam.
the scales of justice
you seem to agree with me that the price paid was Adam's spiritual death, the one He incurred on the day he ate from the fruit (Genesis 2:17).
plus the debt incurred by the sins of all other people.
But read the context
I am getting confused as to which of the two notions you believe.
So, murderers are lost for ever? Including David and Paul?
If there is no ransom possible for Adam's sin, then Jesus' couldn't die as a ransom for Adam's sin.
Quote from: Biep on July 30, 2013, 04:00:39 pmyou seem to agree with me that the price paid was Adam's spiritual death, the one He incurred on the day he ate from the fruit (Genesis 2:17).How so?
Deliberate sins we commit ourselves are another matter altogether.
QuoteBut read the contextHow does it change the fact that the passages in question establishes God's justice as a perfect equivalency?
Again, we are only considering Adamic sin.
QuoteSo, murderers are lost for ever? Including David and Paul?This is a non sequitur.
QuoteIf there is no ransom possible for Adam's sin, then Jesus' couldn't die as a ransom for Adam's sin.Did Adam sin because of his sinful condition. Had Adam inherited sin?
Quote from: Maxximiliann on July 30, 2013, 08:48:05 pmQuote from: Biep on July 30, 2013, 04:00:39 pmyou seem to agree with me that the price paid was Adam's spiritual death, the one He incurred on the day he ate from the fruit (Genesis 2:17).How so?Because "slavery to sin" is hardly a property of physical death, but clearly a sign of physical death.
Of course - but that is part of what Jesus' ransom must cover.
When a sinner comes to Christ, and his personal sins would not be covered by the ransom, he would be as lost as before.
Because that law (about bodily injury done) doesn't apply to Adam's case;
it isn't about justice but about limiting revenge;
by the time Jesus died He had already limited this revenge to zero, and
in cases where such supposed equivalency would show up it doesn't, e.g. by repayment after theft (whichn does apply to Adam's sin).
Suppose it merely covered Adam's sin
So thanks for citing Mark 10:14 and the passage in Romans 5 that show that Jesus' ransom is much greater than the worth of Adam's life
Actually, I was rather looking for Scriptural support than for a philosophical treatise.
Some verses roughly stating that Jesus had to pay the price of the life of Adam.
Everything that you asked for is in Maxx's post #2It's all there. No one is expecting you to agree, but a full explanation was furnished.
Jesus was indeed “a corresponding ransom,” not for the redemption of the one sinner, Adam, but for the redemption of all mankind descended from Adam.