Maxximiliann

  • ***
  • 1159 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2019, 07:27:50 pm »
If you are a Christian, you believe that you have a created soul.

You appear to be misinformed. All Christians believe as per Genesis 2:7-

"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

So, you see, we don't have a soul but are a soul.
The reason to say “have,” is that although you are a created soul, this is in your depths and you have not seen it! If you have seen your soul, please list its properties and powers.

Since I literally am a soul I see it every single time I look in a mirror.

Quote
Further, please list the marks of the soul proving it was made by God.

If exceptional intellect is required to merely duplicate the breathtakingly daedal designs and systems present in nature then much more the original being replicated. In this way, Creation itself is probative of our Creator's necessary existence.

As Romans 1:20 explicates: “For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward because they are perceived by the things made.” So indisputable is this proof for a wise Creator that the Scriptures simply point out: “The senseless one has said in his heart: ‘There is no Jehovah.’”— Psalms 14:1

Quote
You are correct that you are a soul, but are you truly motivated for its salvation?

Why wouldn't I be? I like being alive :)
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

1

jayceeii

  • **
  • 337 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2019, 02:08:28 pm »
If you are a Christian, you believe that you have a created soul.

You appear to be misinformed. All Christians believe as per Genesis 2:7-

"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

So, you see, we don't have a soul but are a soul.
The reason to say “have,” is that although you are a created soul, this is in your depths and you have not seen it! If you have seen your soul, please list its properties and powers.

Since I literally am a soul I see it every single time I look in a mirror.

Quote
Further, please list the marks of the soul proving it was made by God.

If exceptional intellect is required to merely duplicate the breathtakingly daedal designs and systems present in nature then much more the original being replicated. In this way, Creation itself is probative of our Creator's necessary existence.

As Romans 1:20 explicates: “For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward because they are perceived by the things made.” So indisputable is this proof for a wise Creator that the Scriptures simply point out: “The senseless one has said in his heart: ‘There is no Jehovah.’”— Psalms 14:1

Quote
You are correct that you are a soul, but are you truly motivated for its salvation?

Why wouldn't I be? I like being alive :)
jc: Let us first note that you have failed to supply a metaphysics for the application of economic theory to soul status, that I must therefore take as an admission no such metaphysics exists in Christianity, nor has anyone understand that this is necessary.

mm: Since I literally am a soul I see it every single time I look in a mirror.

jc: This is what you offer in lieu of the requested list of properties and powers? If so, I must understand this to be an admission that your idea is the soul is limited to the body, that the physical properties and powers are all you admit to the soul. In this you are not different from the materialists, who say that biochemistry and nerves explain the mind.

mm: If exceptional intellect is required to merely duplicate the breathtakingly daedal designs and systems present in nature then much more the original being replicated. In this way, Creation itself is probative of our Creator's necessary existence.

jc: This is a small external argument, where I asked you to find the marks in the soul itself of the Creator’s hand, creating it. Your argument won’t persuade the materialists, nor do you have the certainty of knowing God exists that a cognoscente would have.

mm: As Romans 1:20 explicates: “For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward because they are perceived by the things made.” So indisputable is this proof for a wise Creator that the Scriptures simply point out: “The senseless one has said in his heart: ‘There is no Jehovah.’”— Psalms 14:1

jc: You’ve entirely bypassed the issue of soul, that I must understand as an admission you do not know the soul, you do not care about the soul, and no one can tell you about the soul. You cite scripture, but do the ones who wrote this scripture know about the soul? The prophets have presented no evidence they know of it, even to list its basic structures!

mm: Why wouldn't I be? I like being alive

jc: So say all, but you do not seek an authority to reassure you the soul is immortal. For all you or even the angels knows, God intends to destroy the souls one day, or may not even have the power to sustain them eternally. This burning question bothers angels, but not men. Though the soul exists, men have no living connection to it, and are therefore not vitally concerned about their own salvation. These thin tales of religion beguile them.

2

Maxximiliann

  • ***
  • 1159 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2019, 02:17:27 pm »


jc: So say all, but you do not seek an authority to reassure you the soul is immortal.

When did I ever claim "the soul is immortal"?
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

3

Maxximiliann

  • ***
  • 1159 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2019, 02:20:54 pm »




jc: You’ve entirely bypassed the issue of soul, that I must understand as an admission you do not know the soul, you do not care about the soul, and no one can tell you about the soul.


This was already addressed here
.
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

4

jayceeii

  • **
  • 337 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2019, 02:46:20 pm »




jc: You’ve entirely bypassed the issue of soul, that I must understand as an admission you do not know the soul, you do not care about the soul, and no one can tell you about the soul.


This was already addressed here
.
The sentence in question is, “All Christians believe as per Genesis 2:7-‘And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.’”

I see therefore that you are a reader, not a knower, nor do you have interest in meeting a knower or becoming a knower. Yet you are accepting one cognoscente, which is to say whoever penned this verse, unless you are testifying and admitting that all humans are blind instruments of the Holy Spirit, having no knowledge for themselves.

My point would be that though the word “soul” is mentioned, it is not described in even tiny measure, the practical import of which is that most think only about a bag of gas, which is to say they try to relate ideas of a soul to ideas they have based from the senses. You have read, you decided you believe, but the idea you believe in has no substantive content. You believe you are a soul, but you do not know what a soul is, and do not care.

5

Maxximiliann

  • ***
  • 1159 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2019, 03:09:11 pm »




jc: You’ve entirely bypassed the issue of soul, that I must understand as an admission you do not know the soul, you do not care about the soul, and no one can tell you about the soul.


This was already addressed here
.
The sentence in question is, “All Christians believe as per Genesis 2:7-‘And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.’”


My point would be that though the word “soul” is mentioned, it is not described in even tiny measure,

It's all pretty simple really. For instance, was Adam's body a soul before Jehovah God infused it with life energy or after? (cf. Genesis 7:22; Ecclesiastes 3:19-21)
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

6

jayceeii

  • **
  • 337 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2019, 03:27:10 pm »

It's all pretty simple really. For instance, was Adam's body a soul before Jehovah God infused it with life energy or after? (cf. Genesis 7:22; Ecclesiastes 3:19-21)
Yes, so now I understand you equate the body with the soul, not believing that there is a spiritual soul that is separable from the body and with parts that religion hasn’t described.

Yet even to say “breathed into,” or “infused with life energy,” are structurally devoid of content. This is no mechanism, it is mere poetry. You have not even known the body.

7

jayceeii

  • **
  • 337 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2019, 03:37:29 pm »

jc: So say all, but you do not seek an authority to reassure you the soul is immortal.
When did I ever claim "the soul is immortal"?
You said you liked to be alive, and if you truly do it becomes inconsistent when you say you don’t care if your existence will continue. From this statement you prove you do not truly like to be alive, which is to say there is nothing deep in you, that reaches for forever.

8

Maxximiliann

  • ***
  • 1159 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2019, 10:09:01 am »

jc: So say all, but you do not seek an authority to reassure you the soul is immortal.
When did I ever claim "the soul is immortal"?
You said you liked to be alive, and if you truly do it becomes inconsistent when you say you don’t care if your existence will continue. From this statement you prove you do not truly like to be alive, which is to say there is nothing deep in you, that reaches for forever.

Strawman. Try again.
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

9

Maxximiliann

  • ***
  • 1159 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2019, 10:15:34 am »

It's all pretty simple really. For instance, was Adam's body a soul before Jehovah God infused it with life energy or after? (cf. Genesis 7:22; Ecclesiastes 3:19-21)
Yes, so now I understand you equate the body with the soul, not believing that there is a spiritual soul that is separable from the body and with parts that religion hasn’t described.

Here, let me fix your Strawman-


"Yes, so now I understand you equate the body with it's life force as the soul not just the body itself since a dead body is not a soul, not believing that there is a spiritual soul that is separable from the body and with parts that religion hasn’t described."


Glad I could help :)


(Btw, you do know you can just ask if there's anything about my position you don't understand, right? :) )
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

10

Maxximiliann

  • ***
  • 1159 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2019, 10:16:56 am »

It's all pretty simple really. For instance, was Adam's body a soul before Jehovah God infused it with life energy or after? (cf. Genesis 7:22; Ecclesiastes 3:19-21)
Yet even to say “breathed into,” or “infused with life energy,” are structurally devoid of content. This is no mechanism, it is mere poetry.

How so?
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

11

jayceeii

  • **
  • 337 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2019, 05:23:46 pm »

jc: So say all, but you do not seek an authority to reassure you the soul is immortal.
When did I ever claim "the soul is immortal"?
You said you liked to be alive, and if you truly do it becomes inconsistent when you say you don’t care if your existence will continue. From this statement you prove you do not truly like to be alive, which is to say there is nothing deep in you, that reaches for forever.

Strawman. Try again.
I'm being intentionally terse, but the argument is not a straw man. I'd like to point out further that when you say, “When did I ever claim 'the soul is immortal'?”, what you really mean to say is, “When did I ever claim that I believe 'the soul is immortal'?” You should admit that whether the soul exists or not, and whether it is immortal or not, are not questions you get to decide. You would have to investigate.

12

Maxximiliann

  • ***
  • 1159 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2019, 05:30:11 pm »

jc: So say all, but you do not seek an authority to reassure you the soul is immortal.
When did I ever claim "the soul is immortal"?
You said you liked to be alive, and if you truly do it becomes inconsistent when you say you don’t care if your existence will continue. From this statement you prove you do not truly like to be alive, which is to say there is nothing deep in you, that reaches for forever.

Strawman. Try again.
I'm being intentionally terse, but the argument is not a straw man.

So when did I ever claim "the soul is immortal"?
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

13

jayceeii

  • **
  • 337 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2019, 05:36:41 pm »

It's all pretty simple really. For instance, was Adam's body a soul before Jehovah God infused it with life energy or after? (cf. Genesis 7:22; Ecclesiastes 3:19-21)
Yes, so now I understand you equate the body with the soul, not believing that there is a spiritual soul that is separable from the body and with parts that religion hasn’t described.

Here, let me fix your Strawman-


"Yes, so now I understand you equate the body with it's life force as the soul not just the body itself since a dead body is not a soul, not believing that there is a spiritual soul that is separable from the body and with parts that religion hasn’t described."


Glad I could help :)


(Btw, you do know you can just ask if there's anything about my position you don't understand, right? :) )
You are interpreting this scripture in a novel way, where most Christians leave it in a fog. Stating explicitly that soul = body + life force, you run aground where Christians hate to run aground, that you have no explanation for the resurrection expected for all dead bodies. In particular, what has God been doing with your individual “life force,” between the time that you die and the expected mass resurrection? Or are you saying you do not have an individual life force, that God will simply breathe into your body and you will reappear, with memories, tendencies, and desires intact? What “stored” these desires? I've been asking you many specific questions, none of which you have answered. Here explain the mechanism of the life force leaving the body then being restored, with memories intact. If you cannot explain this, then explain why your Bible does not explain it. It would seem those you accept as knowers or cognoscenti, gave little evidence of their qualifications, ignoring basic questions.

14

jayceeii

  • **
  • 337 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: Merely one perfect physical human life?
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2019, 05:44:32 pm »

It's all pretty simple really. For instance, was Adam's body a soul before Jehovah God infused it with life energy or after? (cf. Genesis 7:22; Ecclesiastes 3:19-21)
Yet even to say “breathed into,” or “infused with life energy,” are structurally devoid of content. This is no mechanism, it is mere poetry.

How so?
Remember that “life energy” is YOUR interpretation of, “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.” So I could ask your qualifications to interpret it this specific way, where your scripture said BREATH. Are you thinking, “What could it possibly be, but life energy?” If so, tell me the nature of this life energy. What is its source, and what it's duration? Is it spirit, matter, or something like electricity? If you do not know the nature of what you call “life energy,” how is that using the term meaningfully? Again I'm asking questions, waiting for answers, as you stated I could do anytime and you'll respond.