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Belief without Warrant

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Jacob Bukaty

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« on: July 04, 2011, 11:40:24 am »
When a little child says that she believes in Jesus, it that sufficient to save her?  If that little girl grows up and gains more information that leads her to doubt the Jesus story, is heaven off limits for her?  Is information the enemy?

When God does it that means it's not immoral:  The Richard Nixon fallacy.
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FNB - Former non-believer

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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 06:10:14 am »
jbuk43 wrote: When a little child says that she believes in Jesus, it that sufficient to save her?  If that little girl grows up and gains more information that leads her to doubt the Jesus story, is heaven off limits for her?  Is information the enemy?



Information led me to believe in God. And, I believe, people do not doubt because of information, but because of sin.

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Alexander

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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 03:22:40 pm »
emailestthoume wrote:
Information led me to believe in God. And, I believe, people do not doubt because of information, but because of sin.


In what way? Why is it so hard to believe that some of us just don't believe Christianity to be true? It isn't because we want to sin and 'get away with it,' because you can do this while still being a Christian. For whatever reason, some Christians think it is too much of a concession to acknowledge that it is possible to not believe in your religion based on rational reasons.

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FNB - Former non-believer

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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 09:15:45 pm »
Alexander wrote:
Quote from: emailestthoume

Information led me to believe in God. And, I believe, people do not doubt because of information, but because of sin.


In what way? Why is it so hard to believe that some of us just don't believe Christianity to be true? It isn't because we want to sin and 'get away with it,' because you can do this while still being a Christian. For whatever reason, some Christians think it is too much of a concession to acknowledge that it is possible to not believe in your religion based on rational reasons.


I used to be an atheist and I think I understand why people would cite rational reasons for not believing. To answer question directly it would be too much of a concession for me, a Christian, to say it is possible for people to disbelieve because of rational reasons because that would mean that Christianity is false when I know it is not false. Ultimately, Christianity is either true or false. If it is true I am the rational one with regards to it and you are not. If Christianity is false, the irrational one in this situation being irrational is me. Either way, I think both of us believes the other is being irrational.

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Alexander

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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 03:01:14 pm »
emailestthoume wrote:

I used to be an atheist and I think I understand why people would cite rational reasons for not believing. To answer question directly it would be too much of a concession for me, a Christian, to say it is possible for people to disbelieve because of rational reasons because that would mean that Christianity is false when I know it is not false. Ultimately, Christianity is either true or false. If it is true I am the rational one with regards to it and you are not. If Christianity is false, the irrational one in this situation being irrational is me. Either way, I think both of us believes the other is being irrational.


It seems that you think your views are rational and anyone who disagrees with you is irrational (which is very irrational). And you base this because you didn't have good reasons for being an atheist. I can tell you from personal experience that it isn't easy to ditch the religion you have grown up with, the religion that your entire family and friends believe in. There was no personal benefit in this. Christians seem to think that everyone secretly wants to be an atheist so we can sin and do whatever else it is you think we do. The simple fact of the matter is I don't believe Christianity is true.

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FNB - Former non-believer

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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2011, 01:40:50 am »
Alexander wrote:
Quote from: emailestthoume


I used to be an atheist and I think I understand why people would cite rational reasons for not believing. To answer question directly it would be too much of a concession for me, a Christian, to say it is possible for people to disbelieve because of rational reasons because that would mean that Christianity is false when I know it is not false. Ultimately, Christianity is either true or false. If it is true I am the rational one with regards to it and you are not. If Christianity is false, the irrational one in this situation being irrational is me. Either way, I think both of us believes the other is being irrational.


It seems that you think your views are rational and anyone who disagrees with you is irrational (which is very irrational). And you base this because you didn't have good reasons for being an atheist. I can tell you from personal experience that it isn't easy to ditch the religion you have grown up with, the religion that your entire family and friends believe in. There was no personal benefit in this. Christians seem to think that everyone secretly wants to be an atheist so we can sin and do whatever else it is you think we do. The simple fact of the matter is I don't believe Christianity is true.

My beliefs have often been characterized as the same thing as believing in Santa Claus. I think your portrait is one-sided. I accept that you don't believe that Christianity is true. Ultimately, I don't think you're being rational in doing so. I also think that sin, which can work in many ways other than overt visible ways, can affect your judgement. It did so for me, so I speak based on personal experience. A few years ago I would be saying exactly what you are to me. We disagree, and I respect you, but I still think you are wrong.

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jayceeii

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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2020, 01:05:06 pm »
When a little child says that she believes in Jesus, it that sufficient to save her?  If that little girl grows up and gains more information that leads her to doubt the Jesus story, is heaven off limits for her?  Is information the enemy?
Indeed, it has become one of my pet theories that there is no hope for a Christian who believes in Jesus as an adult to meet Jesus at the Second Coming, but that there is hope for someone who believed as a child but was unable to find sufficient rationality to remain a Christian as an adult. I’m taking it even farther, that even an angel so tasked will have a mind that is too far gone for recovery. The Christian story is not really believable.