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Nature of God

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Efourten

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A finite universe
« on: July 24, 2014, 03:26:17 pm »
I have a feeling that someone is going to come at me with astronomy or something like that with "scientific proof" that the universe is eternal. So I'm going to start this post by saying that I'm not interested at all in debating people about their opinions about scientific theories or evidence that they think they have about an eternal universe. The minds of men are darkened and futile according to the Scriptures. Men are liars according to the Scriptures. Men are stupid and without knowledge according to the Scriptures. Men hate the light according to the Scriptures. I put no weight in the arena of scientific "knowledge" at all when it contradicts explicit teachings of Scripture. If someone wants to confront what I say with Scripture on the other hand, I would be interested in hearing that they have to say. We shouldn't interpret Scripture with the theories of men. Men hate God and the truth of God, and they love the darkness. They suppress the truth of God willfully and hold it down. Why would we go to them in order to find out what God is saying?

There is a sphere of existence beyond the created universe where God dwells. The Bible says that, “…heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain [God].” (1 Kings 8:27)  That means God in His omnipresence goes beyond the farthest reaches of the created universe. And why should that surprise us? Before there was a universe, God was there. He transcends the universe, and is capable of existing without it, so why not beyond it? The question is, do the Scriptures teach that the universe is finite? There isn’t a single verse in the Scriptures that say the universe is eternal. There are several though that teach that God goes beyond it, that He inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15), and that Christ ascended far above all the heavens (Ephesians 4:10). If Christ ascended far above all the heavens, then there must be a place where the heavens cease, or else Christ wouldn’t be able to ascend far above them. How can you ascend far above something that is eternal in size?

If the heavens can't contain God, then God must exist beyond them. If they are eternal in size, then what is keeping them from containing God?



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jayceeii

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Re: A finite universe
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2019, 06:41:22 am »
Here is an axiom so obvious everyone should have seen it right away: The scriptures are so vague, either there is no God or God withheld His guidance. Was God so weak that He could not give a universal revelation for a single planet, or is man so benighted that he seeks mere difference instead of truth? It's clear to me that men were led along the only paths they could be led, like cattle only understand prods. As for straight talk about virtue or salvation, this is totally missing from religion.

As for the question, God's spirit is ineffable and unknown even to the angels. All the angels can see of the spiritual side of creation, is their own souls, but the soul is a very low order of spirit and the Creator  is from a far different region, so far that it is not appropriate to say “higher” because there can be no comparison. Thus God is found not only above the material plane, but above the heavens as angels can perceive these. The mysteries of the creation are God's alone, although angels try to help as they can.

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Maxximiliann

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Re: A finite universe
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 12:41:33 pm »
Here is an axiom so obvious everyone should have seen it right away: The scriptures are so vague, either there is no God or God withheld His guidance. Was God so weak that He could not give a universal revelation for a single planet, or is man so benighted that he seeks mere difference instead of truth? It's clear to me that men were led along the only paths they could be led, like cattle only understand prods. As for straight talk about virtue or salvation, this is totally missing from religion.

And the Bible is the single most printed, translated and published book in all of human history. Especially in today's Internet Age, there is no corner of this planet you can go to and not have access to God's Word, The Bible.
May the “God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory . . . give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him." -Ephesians 1:17

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jayceeii

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Re: A finite universe
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2019, 05:52:59 pm »
Here is an axiom so obvious everyone should have seen it right away: The scriptures are so vague, either there is no God or God withheld His guidance. Was God so weak that He could not give a universal revelation for a single planet, or is man so benighted that he seeks mere difference instead of truth? It's clear to me that men were led along the only paths they could be led, like cattle only understand prods. As for straight talk about virtue or salvation, this is totally missing from religion.

And the Bible is the single most printed, translated and published book in all of human history. Especially in today's Internet Age, there is no corner of this planet you can go to and not have access to God's Word, The Bible.
That the Bible is God’s Word is a presumption. If there are two billion Christians, five billion humans disagree with this presumption. Those adhering to other religions say, “Ours is the true religion, not Christianity.” In other words they vigorously assert the opposite, and we have humans at loggerheads over religion, as they are at loggerheads over practically everything else. It seems the other religions contain enough interesting and convincing elements, that the human intelligence is as satisfied as the Christians find themselves to be. If humans are all in one class, it seems to be proved that the human mind is incapable of finding the one true religion, or there’d be seven billion Christians.

In other words, a human saying, “Christianity is the one true religion,” must also prove his mind to be superior to a Buddhist saying, “Buddhism is the one true religion.” If the minds are identical and each has made the choice with which he feels comfortable and behind which he puts all his passions, from the human decision alone we have no basis to descry which of these humans to be correct. Each points to rational argumentation as to why his religion is superior; but neither proves himself to be more capable of choosing.