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Presumption of Atheism

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campuspreacher

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First law of thermodynamics
« on: November 08, 2014, 09:39:59 pm »
I am not sure if this is the forum for this question but: I often hear Christians appeal to the second law of thermodynamics (T from here forward) to show that the universe is wearing down... But should we accept these laws and the implications that come along with them?

I ask this because the first law of T states that energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed which implies that the universe is eternal? But matter cannot be eternal for then God would not be God He would be eternally co-present with matter and energy.

Secondly energy and matter do not seem to have the qualities of an eternal substance in that something that is eternal is immutable; matter and energy seem more contingent rather than eternal since we do see change in matter and energy which are properties of contingency rather than eternal?

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Soyeong

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Re: First law of thermodynamics
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2014, 10:48:47 pm »
It's important to keep in mind that laws are descriptions rather than prescriptions, so they do not claim that it is impossible for them to be violated.  If something caused the universe and the laws that govern it, then it is not required to follow those laws, so while we can't create or destroy energy, it could. 

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I ask this because the first law of T states that energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed which implies that the universe is eternal? But matter cannot be eternal for then God would not be God He would be eternally co-present with matter and energy.

Take the scenario where a man is eternally casting a reflection in a mirror.  Both the he and his reflection would be eternal, but his reflection could not exist without him, so it is still dependent on him.  Similarly, it could be the case that matter and energy are eternal, but that God is eternally creating them at every moment in which they exist, which would not diminish God.

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Secondly energy and matter do not seem to have the qualities of an eternal substance in that something that is eternal is immutable; matter and energy seem more contingent rather than eternal since we do see change in matter and energy which are properties of contingency rather than eternal?

Something that is necessary is eternal and immutable, but something like the reflection which is eternal, but not necessary could be changed as long as the change does not cause them to cease to exist.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 10:51:31 pm by Soyeong »
"Faith is nothing less than the will to keep one's mind fixed precisely on what reason has discovered to it.”

Yeshua answered them, “The reason you go astray is that you are ignorant both of the Tanakh and of the power of God. - Matthews 22:29 (CJB)