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12thMonkey

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Sex Change Regret
« on: March 10, 2015, 08:27:33 pm »
http://www.sexchangeregret.com/

An interesting site I stumbled across, and I thought some here might like a look.

I think these issues are a lot more complicated than many would like to admit.  Often we decide to deal with symptoms instead of root causes, and simply thinking one wants something, and then getting it, doesn't necessarily equal happiness in many cases. 

And a short article from the author of the blog,   http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/10/fifty-six-shades-of-gender-insanity/ along with an interesting quote:

"It used to be that those who suffered from gender confusion and distress were considered to have a mental disorder. That’s all changed now with the politicizing of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), published by the American Psychiatric Association. Gender confusion is not a disorder anymore, it’s a dysphoria, and as such, it shouldn’t be treated as something to overcome."

Are we absolutely sure we're helping people instead of just shifting their misery around? 


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Thresh

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Re: Sex Change Regret
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2015, 09:17:02 pm »
The 31-41% suicide rates are scary. I don't know how a case can be made to say that a sex change surgery is a "natural" or healthy choice.

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kurros

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Re: Sex Change Regret
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2015, 02:01:39 am »
And what are the suicide rates among people with gender confusion who *don't* get the surgery?

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neil

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Re: Sex Change Regret
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2015, 05:05:12 am »
First cut is the deepest.
“Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee
And I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.”
― Robert Frost

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JFS

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Re: Sex Change Regret
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2015, 05:21:10 am »
Sad but not surprising.

Gender confusion is a symptom of my sister-in-law's mental illness. She sometimes wants to be the 'man' in the relationship with her female partner. Other times she allows the other partner to be the male role but she always reverts back to dominance. She is highly depressed because she doesn't know who she is. It is called gender 'confusion' for a reason. Because of the stigma attached with treating gender confusion, she finds it difficult to find counselling for her borderline personality disorder, which is sad.

What a terrible mess we have made of the world.
"Influencing people for the good of myself is manipulation; influencing people for the good of the kingdom is motivation." -Alistair Begg

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Lawlessone777

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Re: Sex Change Regret
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2015, 05:30:53 am »
This is one of those areas where I suppose I would hold a view contrary to what is socially expected. I find with those that are transgendered the generally politically correct position is to defend their right to be whatever they want and follow their path in life. In theory, without any other consideration this seems at first blush to be the more moral choice. The problem is, what they claim they are they simply are biologically not.

This has always been my concern with gender confusion. Many say, "I am a man who was assigned the gender of a woman at birth." Yes, and you were assigned that gender because biologically and physically you are a woman. You have two X chromosomes, ovaries, the ability to bear children, etc. It is not simply that society "decided" you were female, you actually are objectively female in reality.

To then go ahead and say if you don't like who you are you are free to change it I've always felt uneasy about the position that you can decide to be something you are not, like, biologically or physically. If someone told me they were an amputee trapped in a healthy persons body I would be hard pressed to accept their decision to have their limbs surgically removed. Instead I feel we shouldn't support their decision to become something they're not, but rather help them love and accept who they are in reality. Even if a transgendered woman is homosexual at the end of it I feel they should be counseled on loving themselves and finding peace in their life, not in undergoing often times dangerous and potentially disabling surgery to change.
God willed both to reveal himself to man, and to give him the grace of being able to welcome this revelation in faith.(so) the proofs of God's existence, however, can predispose one to faith and help one to see that faith is not opposed to reason.

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D. Alexander

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Re: Sex Change Regret
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2015, 07:29:11 am »
I agree.

If X thinks he's Y, and it is the case that X is Z, then we ought not call X Y, but instead, Z.

Even on the consent, no harm, no worries criteria it would be wrong to call someone something that they are not. Because:

1. Lying is non consensual - I don't think that a lot of people would ask to be lied to.

2. Lying can cause harm - lying to somebody may lead then to hold false beliefs about themself and the world; holding false  beliefs about something can put you at a disadvantage, and hence, ought to be avoided.

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kurros

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Re: Sex Change Regret
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2015, 07:35:17 am »
The argument conflates gender identity with biological sex. They aren't the same thing, despite the fact that the same words "male" and "female" (among others) are used to describe them. If someone says "I feel like a man" then they are clearly referring to their gender identity, not their biological sex.

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Jabberwock

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Re: Sex Change Regret
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2015, 07:44:48 am »
This has always been my concern with gender confusion. Many say, "I am a man who was assigned the gender of a woman at birth." Yes, and you were assigned that gender because biologically and physically you are a woman. You have two X chromosomes, ovaries, the ability to bear children, etc. It is not simply that society "decided" you were female, you actually are objectively female in reality.

There are people who do not have ovaries or are not able to bear children. Are they female? There are people who are externally female and have male karyotype: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis. Are they objectively female or male? Finally, there are actual hermaphrodites, with both chromosome pairs. What gender are they?

Many transgendered people have brains which seem to be mismatched with their external sexuality or simply are not developed clearly into a given gender: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html Is a person with a physiologically male brain and female sexual organs a man or a woman?

Let us suppose a theoretical scenario: we transplant a brain of a 100% male into a female body. He still has the same memories, enjoys football with the guys, likes beer and responds to the very male name his parents gave him. If his soul was not attached to any of his old parts (and we have no such evidence), we can even assume his soul is the same. Yet, according to your argumentation, we should consider that person a woman from then on. Is that reasonable?

As you see, your argument is self-defeating. If having a vagina or ovaries decides who is a woman, then transplanting a vagina or ovaries should be sufficient for a sex change. If there is no such thing as gender identity, then there are no issues related to sex change. Getting a new vagina should be as neutral as getting a heart transplant. Is the Bible against heart transplants?
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