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grosso

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Christians, can you answer this?
« on: August 29, 2015, 07:33:34 pm »
Someone posed me this question:

Quote
I am extremely curious, WHY do you believe in God?  I mean, why really?  What goes through your mind about it?  What are your private thoughts about it like?  Did you have some kind of emotional experience?  Were you raised Christian?  What?

I enjoyed pondering this. But I don't have even the beginnings of an answer I could call comprehensive or accurate.

Some Christians might give glib answers. Please don't be glib.

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Trinity

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2015, 08:00:49 pm »
Why? Because everything makes more sense with God than without. The question should be, ''Why not?'' In light of the arguments and evidence for God's existence, I don't think there are good reasons to think we live in a godless world.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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ParaclitosLogos

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2015, 08:14:36 pm »
Someone posed me this question:

Quote
I am extremely curious, WHY do you believe in God?  I mean, why really?  What goes through your mind about it?  What are your private thoughts about it like?  Did you have some kind of emotional experience?  Were you raised Christian?  What?

I enjoyed pondering this. But I don't have even the beginnings of an answer I could call comprehensive or accurate.

Some Christians might give glib answers. Please don't be glib.

Nothing impressive, but, that´s what I got, right now.

1.It fits with how I see the world behind its noisyness and flashiness. I find a couple of arguments for God´s existence  more plausible than not ,and, I find the atheistic/skeptic world view implausible and quite unappealing.

2.Yes, that´s really why.

3.My thoughts about it are mostly and foremost of having a sense of discovery, of what else is in store for me (us) there ?

4. I have had a couple of quite impressive experiences, none that I could truly call emotional, in my view, but, not when I converted.


5. I was raised in a non practicing Catholic family, if anything that seemed to play a role in my going skeptic and ultimately disinterested. My sister had a true conversion around 30, that played a roll, that play a role in getting me interested again.

6. My life´s quality has improved since I converted, I have the same issues, and then some, add to that, I am older and fatter, with less prospects, but,  I have a better outlook of life, now: That´s what.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 08:16:12 pm by ontologicalme »

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Redsox_239

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2015, 09:53:45 pm »
Quote
I am extremely curious, WHY do you believe in God?  I mean, why really?  What goes through your mind about it?  What are your private thoughts about it like?  Did you have some kind of emotional experience?  Were you raised Christian?  What?
I was a christian growing up since I live in the Southern part of the "Bible Belt" in Florida. Growing up you really accept whatever your family believes, and you don't do much thinking. You are in a way indoctrinated, and you go to church etc. After I grew up a little more like usual you start questioning things, and at a teenage age you can be defiant, and think its cool and rebellious to reject religion. This was part of why I rejected Christianity, but there were some intellectual reasons as well. One, I watched Stephan Hawking speak in a documentary with my Dad and he talked about the universe, and how it could work perfectly fine without any God necessary. He is the great Stephan Hawking leading physicist he knows what he is talking about! I felt like God was not necessary, and I felt like my Dad should or probably feel the same. Other things included Noah's Ark and how that is possible, and why I can see a rainbow just seeing water and light there is no "God" putting it into the sky! And some other things as well like why does God send people to a fiery hell if they don't believe? I think Pascal's Wager got me thinking, and made me research Christianity more. Now, I don't think it is the most valid or best argument in the world, but it made me think "What if i'm wrong?" I should probably research this more.

Well, that is when I think I really started looking at videos for Christianity. I remember the "Cold Case Christianity" lecture by Jim Warner Wallace, and archeology videos being among my earliest. I came across Gary Habermas, Michael Licona, N.T. Wright, Craig Evans etc. to learn about the Resurrection, and other facts or details about Jesus, and Christianity. I found William Lane Craig and all his arguments most notably "The Kalam Cosmological Argument, I found the fine-tuning argument, and later on people like Alvin Plantinga, J.P. Moreland, John Lennox, Francis Collins etc. and most recently the Blackwell companion which has the best arguments for theism w/ their best defenders. Instead of God being not necessary he now looked required to explain the world around me. I saw there are good reasons to believe in God, and very intelligent people who do believe in God now, and in the past which can be surprising.

To give a list of reasons why I believe in God here:

1. Kalam Cosmological Argument (William Lane Craig, James Sinclair)
2. Leibnizian Cosmological Argument (Alexander Pruss, Inspiring Philosophy (talented christian youtuber)
3. Fine-Tuning Argument (Robin Collins)
4. Resurrection Argument (Gary Habermas, Tim Mcgrew, William Lane Craig, N.T. Wright, Michael Licona)
5. Religious Experience Argument (Craig Keener, Richard Swinburne, Kai-Man Kwan)
6. Consciousness Argument (J.P. Moreland, and some others)
7. Moral Argument (C.S. Lewis, Mark Linville, William Lane Craig)
8. Argument from Reason/EAAN (Alvin Plantinga, C.S. Lewis, Victor Reppert)
9. Ontological Argument (Robert E. Maydole, Alvin Plantinga)
10. Argument from Evil (Stewart Goetz)
11. Mathematics Argument (Eugene Wigner, and some others)
12. Reliability of the Gospels (Inspiring Philosophy, Craig Blomberg, etc.)
13. Prophecy Evidence (Michael Brown)
14. Archeology Evidence (Paul Meier, Sir William Ramsey etc.)
15. Shroud of Turin (& Sudarium) (Barrie Schwartz, Robert Bucklin, John Jackson etc.)
16. Trinity in the OT (Michael Brown, Michael Heiser, Inspiring Philosophy)
17. Historicity of Jesus' Miracles
etc.

Some other things I consider to be possibly pointing to God is the Origin of life, Cambrian Explosion, Digital Physics Argument, NDE's plus some other things.

So if you want to know why I believe in God those are some of the main reasons, and some (Kalam, Resurrection, Fine-tuning etc.) are more compelling to me than others, and I could spend more time understand certain ones a little better (Ontological, Argument from Evil).
Shroud of Turin: Blood, Body, and Wounds of the Christ

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/forums/choose-your-own-topic/shroud-turin-blood-body-and-wounds-christ-6032120.0.html

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Redsox_239

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2015, 10:15:44 pm »
One other thing probably among many I forgot...

It was just reading the NT...Reading the words that Jesus said and how charismatic, and intelligent he was. I just felt like it would be foolish not to listen to him, and to not follow him. There was just something about him that made me think he was special. Then you look at how this character just by words 2000 years ago is capable of changing the world, and changing drug addicts, terrorists, psychopaths and its just shocking the change this Carpenter peasant from the 1st century can cause.
Shroud of Turin: Blood, Body, and Wounds of the Christ

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/forums/choose-your-own-topic/shroud-turin-blood-body-and-wounds-christ-6032120.0.html

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Harvey

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2015, 11:04:43 pm »
Someone posed me this question:

Quote
I am extremely curious, WHY do you believe in God?  I mean, why really?  What goes through your mind about it?  What are your private thoughts about it like?  Did you have some kind of emotional experience?  Were you raised Christian?  What?

I enjoyed pondering this. But I don't have even the beginnings of an answer I could call comprehensive or accurate.

Some Christians might give glib answers. Please don't be glib.

I saw the movie Jesus and I just wanted to be one of the people who follows him because that message really resonated with me.

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Soren

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2015, 11:16:31 pm »
Quote
I am extremely curious, WHY do you believe in God?  I mean, why really?  What goes through your mind about it?  What are your private thoughts about it like?  Did you have some kind of emotional experience?  Were you raised Christian?  What?
I was a christian growing up since I live in the Southern part of the "Bible Belt" in Florida. Growing up you really accept whatever your family believes, and you don't do much thinking. You are in a way indoctrinated, and you go to church etc. After I grew up a little more like usual you start questioning things, and at a teenage age you can be defiant, and think its cool and rebellious to reject religion. This was part of why I rejected Christianity, but there were some intellectual reasons as well. One, I watched Stephan Hawking speak in a documentary with my Dad and he talked about the universe, and how it could work perfectly fine without any God necessary. He is the great Stephan Hawking leading physicist he knows what he is talking about! I felt like God was not necessary, and I felt like my Dad should or probably feel the same. Other things included Noah's Ark and how that is possible, and why I can see a rainbow just seeing water and light there is no "God" putting it into the sky! And some other things as well like why does God send people to a fiery hell if they don't believe? I think Pascal's Wager got me thinking, and made me research Christianity more. Now, I don't think it is the most valid or best argument in the world, but it made me think "What if i'm wrong?" I should probably research this more.

Well, that is when I think I really started looking at videos for Christianity. I remember the "Cold Case Christianity" lecture by Jim Warner Wallace, and archeology videos being among my earliest. I came across Gary Habermas, Michael Licona, N.T. Wright, Craig Evans etc. to learn about the Resurrection, and other facts or details about Jesus, and Christianity. I found William Lane Craig and all his arguments most notably "The Kalam Cosmological Argument, I found the fine-tuning argument, and later on people like Alvin Plantinga, J.P. Moreland, John Lennox, Francis Collins etc. and most recently the Blackwell companion which has the best arguments for theism w/ their best defenders. Instead of God being not necessary he now looked required to explain the world around me. I saw there are good reasons to believe in God, and very intelligent people who do believe in God now, and in the past which can be surprising.

To give a list of reasons why I believe in God here:

1. Kalam Cosmological Argument (William Lane Craig, James Sinclair)
2. Leibnizian Cosmological Argument (Alexander Pruss, Inspiring Philosophy (talented christian youtuber)
3. Fine-Tuning Argument (Robin Collins)
4. Resurrection Argument (Gary Habermas, Tim Mcgrew, William Lane Craig, N.T. Wright, Michael Licona)
5. Religious Experience Argument (Craig Keener, Richard Swinburne, Kai-Man Kwan)
6. Consciousness Argument (J.P. Moreland, and some others)
7. Moral Argument (C.S. Lewis, Mark Linville, William Lane Craig)
8. Argument from Reason/EAAN (Alvin Plantinga, C.S. Lewis, Victor Reppert)
9. Ontological Argument (Robert E. Maydole, Alvin Plantinga)
10. Argument from Evil (Stewart Goetz)
11. Mathematics Argument (Eugene Wigner, and some others)
12. Reliability of the Gospels (Inspiring Philosophy, Craig Blomberg, etc.)
13. Prophecy Evidence (Michael Brown)
14. Archeology Evidence (Paul Meier, Sir William Ramsey etc.)
15. Shroud of Turin (& Sudarium) (Barrie Schwartz, Robert Bucklin, John Jackson etc.)
16. Trinity in the OT (Michael Brown, Michael Heiser, Inspiring Philosophy)
17. Historicity of Jesus' Miracles
etc.

Some other things I consider to be possibly pointing to God is the Origin of life, Cambrian Explosion, Digital Physics Argument, NDE's plus some other things.

So if you want to know why I believe in God those are some of the main reasons, and some (Kalam, Resurrection, Fine-tuning etc.) are more compelling to me than others, and I could spend more time understand certain ones a little better (Ontological, Argument from Evil).
Is your father a journalist or a scientist? How did he end up interviewing Hawking?

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Redsox_239

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2015, 11:29:47 pm »
Quote
Is your father a journalist or a scientist? How did he end up interviewing Hawking?

No haha, I said a documentary with Stephan Hawking speaking. I watched it with my Dad, and seeing such a big name scientist say all this made me think he was correct, and that science made God unnecessary. Thats why as a christian now I really like the Kalam Cosmological Argument, and William Lane Craig. As well as the Leibnizian Cosmological Argument that fits really well with the Kalam because the universe cannot be the "necessary being or eternal cause" if it itself had a beginning.
Shroud of Turin: Blood, Body, and Wounds of the Christ

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/forums/choose-your-own-topic/shroud-turin-blood-body-and-wounds-christ-6032120.0.html

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kravarnik

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2015, 03:25:17 am »
Someone posed me this question:

Quote
I am extremely curious, WHY do you believe in God?  I mean, why really?  What goes through your mind about it?  What are your private thoughts about it like?  Did you have some kind of emotional experience?  Were you raised Christian?  What?

I enjoyed pondering this. But I don't have even the beginnings of an answer I could call comprehensive or accurate.

Some Christians might give glib answers. Please don't be glib.

Hey, grosso.

For me personally, I believe because upon a deeper analysis of the world, it very much fits the Christian worldview, at least in my understanding. I think rejecting God is engaging in rather superficial view of the world.

There have been some arguments and experiences that further convinced me of the truth of Christianity and God. But nothing extraordinary. Say, I ponder upon God's Providence and often analyze past events in my life and how well they fit in with God's plan to bring myself to Him, especially arranged for my psyche and understanding, and it surely leaves me in awe. Or, how Christ predicts the outcome and end result of certain moral decisions and they do match my experiences.


I tend to believe I've had, and keep having, emotional experiences, but it is of no surprise to me. I'd find it very strange to commit to loving relationship with a person(God), without first having some kind of an emotional experience with them, but due to sheer rationalizations. I wasn't raised a Christian.

This is what maintains my faith in God. As to what drove me to God, it'd mainly be the intellectual superiority I found in Christian reasoning, which led to me reading the Bible without the prejudice against religion I held as an agnostic. Once I did so, I believed in Christ.
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

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bdsimon

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2015, 12:38:50 pm »
Someone posed me this question:

Quote
I am extremely curious, WHY do you believe in God?  I mean, why really?  What goes through your mind about it?  What are your private thoughts about it like?  Did you have some kind of emotional experience?  Were you raised Christian?  What?

I was not raised Christian and did not seek God. I accidentally found him (or he revealed himself to me) and when I read the Bible it felt true. I have not seen any reasons to turn away from this. If it is not true, it should be.
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

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grosso

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2015, 03:18:17 pm »
I cannot empirically distinguish between psychological/biological and spiritual effects on me.

So I cannot say whether x is psychological/biological, or whether it is spiritual.

I can certainly feel the Holy Spirit, or what I perceive to very likely be the Holy Spirit.

But at the same time, were this feeling to come about in a non religious context I wouldn't hesitate to put it down to a psychological effect. Keep in mind being psychological doesn't rule out spiritual involvement any more than the physical behavior of water rules out the parting of the red Sea.

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Archsage

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2015, 03:34:00 pm »
Someone posed me this question:

Quote
I am extremely curious, WHY do you believe in God?  I mean, why really?  What goes through your mind about it?  What are your private thoughts about it like?  Did you have some kind of emotional experience?  Were you raised Christian?  What?

I enjoyed pondering this. But I don't have even the beginnings of an answer I could call comprehensive or accurate.

Some Christians might give glib answers. Please don't be glib.

Honestly, because He's as real as anything else around me. I'm at the point where someone telling me God isn't real is like someone telling me my parents aren't real. It just doesn't make any sense. I've been too far involved with interact with them and seeing their effects on my life and the lives of others where an assertion that they are non-existent would be literally insane to believe.

That is to say, I don't doubt that God exists because He's just too real. He's always there, and never too far off -- even in my most sinful days.
“It is of dangerous consequence to represent to man how near he is to the level of beasts, without showing him at the same time his greatness. It is likewise dangerous to let him see his greatness without his meanness..."  –Blaise Pascal

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lapwing

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2015, 06:17:45 pm »
I was convinced by the Holy Spirit, repented of my sin and experienced a change in my person as the Holy Spirit came in to take abode within me.
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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H.H.

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2015, 11:41:51 pm »
I cannot empirically distinguish between psychological/biological and spiritual effects on me.

So I cannot say whether x is psychological/biological, or whether it is spiritual.

I can certainly feel the Holy Spirit, or what I perceive to very likely be the Holy Spirit.

But at the same time, were this feeling to come about in a non religious context I wouldn't hesitate to put it down to a psychological effect. Keep in mind being psychological doesn't rule out spiritual involvement any more than the physical behavior of water rules out the parting of the red Sea.

So that's good reason to doubt the source of your inspiration. The next thing you have to ask yourself is to what extant does your commitment to theist arguments rely on that inspiration? And since there are many within the faith as well as those outside of it that don't find those arguments convincing, the only honest approach is either fideism or deconversion.
some dive into the sea, some toil upon the stone

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grosso

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Re: Christians, can you answer this?
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2015, 12:33:54 am »
Your first sentence doesn't follow from anything I said.