ParaclitosLogos

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Please, list your Chance hypotheses on which LPU is actually extremely probable.

Thanks.

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Harvey

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Please, list your Chance hypotheses on which LPU is actually extremely probable.

Thanks.

Wouldn't a large enough multiverse do the job?

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ParaclitosLogos

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Please, list your Chance hypotheses on which LPU is actually extremely probable.

Thanks.

Wouldn't a large enough multiverse do the job?

No, unless uimaginably large implied (broadly speaking) fine tuned, which it does not.

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kurros

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Please, list your Chance hypotheses on which LPU is actually extremely probable.

Thanks.

Wouldn't a large enough multiverse do the job?

No, unless uimaginably large implied (broadly speaking) fine tuned, which it does not.

What? Don't understand what you mean. A multiverse in which fundamental constants are randomly selected due to some more fundamental mechanism does exactly what you ask. That's exactly why people talk about multiverses in connection to fine tuning. The anthropic principle then applies non-controversially, the same as it does for explaining why the Earth is located at a special life-permitting distance from the sun.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 02:49:15 pm by kurros »

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Bertuzzi

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It can't only be varied in its constants, for it could have right constants and wrong initial conditions. So it must also be varied in its initial conditions. And then of course variation doesn't guarantee the right kind of variation.
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ParaclitosLogos

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Please, list your Chance hypotheses on which LPU is actually extremely probable.

Thanks.

Wouldn't a large enough multiverse do the job?

No, unless uimaginably large implied (broadly speaking) fine tuned, which it does not.

What? Don't understand what you mean. A multiverse in which fundamental constants are randomly selected due to some more fundamental mechanism does exactly what you ask. That's exactly why people talk about multiverses in connection to fine tuning. The anthropic principle then applies non-controversially, the same as it does for explaining why the Earth is located at a special life-permitting distance from the sun.

Even if that was the case (I am not saying it is the case or it isn´t , at this point), it wouldn´t be just because it is large enough as Harvey suggested, right?

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kurros

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It can't only be varied in its constants, for it could have right constants and wrong initial conditions. So it must also be varied in its initial conditions. And then of course variation doesn't guarantee the right kind of variation.

Well those are kind of the same thing in a multiverse theory. The constants adopt certain values in each bubble universe due to underlying initial conditons under which each bubble emerges. And it near-guarantees the right kind of variation so long as that variation is possible and the number of bubble universes is large enough.

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kurros

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Please, list your Chance hypotheses on which LPU is actually extremely probable.

Thanks.

Wouldn't a large enough multiverse do the job?

No, unless uimaginably large implied (broadly speaking) fine tuned, which it does not.

What? Don't understand what you mean. A multiverse in which fundamental constants are randomly selected due to some more fundamental mechanism does exactly what you ask. That's exactly why people talk about multiverses in connection to fine tuning. The anthropic principle then applies non-controversially, the same as it does for explaining why the Earth is located at a special life-permitting distance from the sun.

Even if that was the case (I am not saying it is the case or it isn´t , at this point), it wouldn´t be just because it is large enough as Harvey suggested, right?

If there is any non-zero chance of our universe emerging in a given bubble, then yes increasing the number of bubbles is all you need to do. Same as you will eventually win the lottery if you buy enough tickets.

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Bertuzzi

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It can't only be varied in its constants, for it could have right constants and wrong initial conditions. So it must also be varied in its initial conditions. And then of course variation doesn't guarantee the right kind of variation.

Well those are kind of the same thing in a multiverse theory. The constants adopt certain values in each bubble universe due to underlying initial conditons under which each bubble emerges. And it near-guarantees the right kind of variation so long as that variation is possible and the number of bubble universes is large enough.

No, they are not the same thing, at all. And, no, it doesn't guarantee the right kind, even in an infinite multiverse. It could be infinite universes that are not LP.
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kurros

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It can't only be varied in its constants, for it could have right constants and wrong initial conditions. So it must also be varied in its initial conditions. And then of course variation doesn't guarantee the right kind of variation.

Well those are kind of the same thing in a multiverse theory. The constants adopt certain values in each bubble universe due to underlying initial conditons under which each bubble emerges. And it near-guarantees the right kind of variation so long as that variation is possible and the number of bubble universes is large enough.

No, they are not the same thing, at all. And, no, it doesn't guarantee the right kind, even in an infinite multiverse. It could be infinite universes that are not LP.

If no universes are life permitting then of course having more of them doesn't help. Of course no one is going to consider a multiverse theory in which our own universe is impossible, so I'm not sure what your point is.

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Bertuzzi

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It can't only be varied in its constants, for it could have right constants and wrong initial conditions. So it must also be varied in its initial conditions. And then of course variation doesn't guarantee the right kind of variation.

Well those are kind of the same thing in a multiverse theory. The constants adopt certain values in each bubble universe due to underlying initial conditons under which each bubble emerges. And it near-guarantees the right kind of variation so long as that variation is possible and the number of bubble universes is large enough.

No, they are not the same thing, at all. And, no, it doesn't guarantee the right kind, even in an infinite multiverse. It could be infinite universes that are not LP.

If no universes are life permitting then of course having more of them doesn't help. Of course no one is going to consider a multiverse theory in which our own universe is impossible, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Do you agree they are not the same thing? And the point is that it's got to be the right kind of multiverse. Not any ole multiverse will do.
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cnearing

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Infinite universes exist, each with physics described by the same model as those of our universe, with parameter values selected at random from a uniform distribution over the set of integers that are a thousand digits (in base ten) or fewer.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 03:27:56 pm by cnearing »
P((A => B), A) = P(A => B) + P(A) - 1

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kurros

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It can't only be varied in its constants, for it could have right constants and wrong initial conditions. So it must also be varied in its initial conditions. And then of course variation doesn't guarantee the right kind of variation.

Well those are kind of the same thing in a multiverse theory. The constants adopt certain values in each bubble universe due to underlying initial conditons under which each bubble emerges. And it near-guarantees the right kind of variation so long as that variation is possible and the number of bubble universes is large enough.

No, they are not the same thing, at all. And, no, it doesn't guarantee the right kind, even in an infinite multiverse. It could be infinite universes that are not LP.

If no universes are life permitting then of course having more of them doesn't help. Of course no one is going to consider a multiverse theory in which our own universe is impossible, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Do you agree they are not the same thing? And the point is that it's got to be the right kind of multiverse. Not any ole multiverse will do.

No we don't agree about that. Initial conditions and constants are not different types of things, and both can be set by a more general theory. But yes of course not "any ol'" multiverse will do, just as not "any ol'" universe will do. There are loads of failed physical theories of our present universe, but we don't get hung up about it.

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ParaclitosLogos

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It can't only be varied in its constants, for it could have right constants and wrong initial conditions. So it must also be varied in its initial conditions. And then of course variation doesn't guarantee the right kind of variation.

Well those are kind of the same thing in a multiverse theory. The constants adopt certain values in each bubble universe due to underlying initial conditons under which each bubble emerges. And it near-guarantees the right kind of variation so long as that variation is possible and the number of bubble universes is large enough.

No, they are not the same thing, at all. And, no, it doesn't guarantee the right kind, even in an infinite multiverse. It could be infinite universes that are not LP.

If no universes are life permitting then of course having more of them doesn't help. Of course no one is going to consider a multiverse theory in which our own universe is impossible, so I'm not sure what your point is.

My point was plainly stated from the beginning.

Just saying it is large is not it.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 04:42:34 pm by ontologicalme »

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kurros

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It can't only be varied in its constants, for it could have right constants and wrong initial conditions. So it must also be varied in its initial conditions. And then of course variation doesn't guarantee the right kind of variation.

Well those are kind of the same thing in a multiverse theory. The constants adopt certain values in each bubble universe due to underlying initial conditons under which each bubble emerges. And it near-guarantees the right kind of variation so long as that variation is possible and the number of bubble universes is large enough.

No, they are not the same thing, at all. And, no, it doesn't guarantee the right kind, even in an infinite multiverse. It could be infinite universes that are not LP.

If no universes are life permitting then of course having more of them doesn't help. Of course no one is going to consider a multiverse theory in which our own universe is impossible, so I'm not sure what your point is.

My point was plainly stated from the beginning.

Just saying it is large is not it.

Hardly, I still don't understand your first reply post, but ok if this is your only point then we can move on, clearly multiverse theories are one solution to your OP question. The other general class of solutions would be single-universe theories in which the constants are predicted as a result of more fundamental underlying theory, like how inflation was proposed in order to solve the cosmic flatness problem and explain the extreme uniformity of the cosmic microwave background.