dmill1234567

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Aren't finite beings bound to miss the mark?
« on: June 25, 2016, 02:30:25 am »
Hello, I am new to philosophy so please go easy :) I am a Christian, although I do struggle like most people with understanding the problem of evil. The free will defence doesn't solve every problem for me because I don't think finite beings, like us, are morally capable of meeting God's standards and not falling short of the glory of God. This is one of the ways I define "sin".

I do believe I have a "free will", but I think that freedom is not true freedom. In a sense, I am not free to live a completely perfect life that does what ought to be done. It is not morally possible. (I am declared perfect in Christ, but I still sin- though now I have the Holy Spirit in me helping me to change)

Jesus was the only one who lived a sinless life -24/7. (which is amazing to think about when considering a commandment like "Love the Lord your God with all your mind, soul, heart and strength", etc.)

Thinking about how God created us as finite beings, it seems like there are somethings about us that are self-destructive by necessity. Aren't we bound to not live up to God's standards?

As finite beings we have the built in weakness of not being able to love God and people with 100% energy.We have the weakness of not knowing all the right details, to know what is the best course of action in every situation, we don't really know what impact our decisions will make and we don't really have the power to make good happen - these weakness should cause us to depend on Someone who has these qualities (God). But instead of admitting we are weak, we dig deeper to look for what we need. Whether in ourself or in something else, as long as it isn't God. (the root of moral evil)

If this is true, why were we originally made to be morally limited? I think, and please let me know if you think I'm bonkers, that God has made us limited finite beings so that we would be painfully aware of what we are lacking so that we would desire to come to him to satisfy those needs. Putting us in our rightful place and God in His rightful place. Maybe God loves contrast? The lightning is way more impressive in the black of night than during the day.... there happens to be some lightning outside as I write this at 2am :)

But still, if I am morally incapable to be "perfect as my Heavenly Father is perfect", should I still be responsible when I can't be perfect physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, etc? I think the answer is, "yes I am responsible", but I'm not 100% sure how to prove it :)

Any thoughts?

Dmill

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jayceeii

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Re: Aren't finite beings bound to miss the mark?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2019, 01:46:44 pm »
But still, if I am morally incapable to be "perfect as my Heavenly Father is perfect", should I still be responsible when I can't be perfect physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, etc? I think the answer is, "yes I am responsible", but I'm not 100% sure how to prove it :)
The way past sin can be described, but as Jesus averred it is difficult for impure beings to follow. In the East they say, “Like the sharp edge of a razor is that path, so the wise say—hard to tread and difficult to cross.” However Jesus said that His yoke was easy and His burden light, i.e. the path of truth and goodness is no longer difficult for the pure in heart.

In general two things are required, purity and a right perception. The purity is necessary so you no longer have negative impulses to harm others, to see them in lesser positions or in misery. You also have no more desires to take things that would not be given to your friends. The right perception involves rejoicing at the joy of others, which sounds easy but actually depends upon deep self-knowledge one is a created soul among many others.

The tragedy of the Bible is that men weren’t given any standards, instead they were just told they can’t meet any standards. The specter of the Christian church is many weeping they are miserable sinners, but without really understanding what that means or doing anything significant about it beyond prayers expecting that God will remove that burden.

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manbooks7

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Re: Aren't finite beings bound to miss the mark?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 12:17:42 pm »
Galatians 5:1
 ‭Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.‭

Sin was, as you said, inevitable. Only Jesus lived a perfect life. Now that we are in Christ, who still lives that perfect life in us, we are free. Yes, we deal with the frailty of the flesh, but our identity is now in Him. As we learn to abide in Jesus, more and more fruit we bear, becoming like Him through seeing Him (II COR 3).

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jayceeii

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Re: Aren't finite beings bound to miss the mark?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2019, 07:27:27 am »
Galatians 5:1
 ‭Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.‭

Sin was, as you said, inevitable. Only Jesus lived a perfect life. Now that we are in Christ, who still lives that perfect life in us, we are free. Yes, we deal with the frailty of the flesh, but our identity is now in Him. As we learn to abide in Jesus, more and more fruit we bear, becoming like Him through seeing Him (II COR 3).
I think the world will find that the entities declaring themselves already perfect, is the fulfillment of the Garden of Eden fable, that foretold men would eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which is to say make themselves the standard of goodness while neglecting God’s guidance. I’d disagree that anyone is “in Christ,” for I see no one upholding any basic standards of divine persons such as Jesus. I disagree that anyone “sees Christ,” instead that each is beholding his own self-image, in pride and vanity. I disagree that anyone is bearing fruit, since nowhere does anyone love the neighbor as himself. I disagree anyone is identified with Christ, for creatures are not like the Creator.

Self-satisfaction is a sin too, gloating in smugness while your nature remains unchanged. If you are already perfect, if you are in Christ and bearing fruit, let us discuss some more reasonable standards for society on Earth, so that it would be more like Heaven, today. Do you think the angels have money? If they do not, why do you continue to use money? Do you think the angels dwell in isolated family knots? If not, why do you dwell in such knots? If you are so great as you boast, surely you will be eager for a little serious talk about stepping into some higher standards, so that seeing your efforts, God will be pleased. Or, hearing such talk will you instead persecute, as the Pharisees did before you?