SPF

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Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« on: August 01, 2016, 09:33:53 am »
http://townhall.com/columnists/waynegrudem/2016/07/28/why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice-n2199564

Sorry, it's too long to copy/paste the content, and there's no good way to summarize it.  If you care, you just have to read it~
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

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ATheisticSeeker

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2016, 09:51:48 am »
IMO, this is the result of evangelical Christianity becoming a political movement.

In a flash of broad, sweeping ecumenicism, anyone who agrees that we are saved by "grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone" is in the "in group".  So, this pretty much encompasses everything from the Arminianism to Zwinglianism.  And within this spectrum, there tends to be a set of core political beliefs that make up the doctrines of the "Christian Right".  I have no idea how many of these core political beliefs there are, but for the sake of argument, I'll say ten (in any case, I'm quite sure the number is more than one).  Thus, it seems that evangelical Christianity may well be more intertwined through politics than theology.  And, if theology takes a back seat to right wing politics, then it's no surprise you see evangelical pastors not only advocating Trump as the "lesser of two evils", but actually claiming it's "morally good" to vote for this sociopath. 

I swear, if Anti-Christ were running for president, I'm sure he'd get Pat Robertson's endorsement if he were the GOP candidate. 
My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

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Zbigge1031

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2016, 10:15:03 am »
http://townhall.com/columnists/waynegrudem/2016/07/28/why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice-n2199564

Sorry, it's too long to copy/paste the content, and there's no good way to summarize it.  If you care, you just have to read it~

I tried to get through this with an open mind, and at the start I thought I was going to agree with the author. But as I got further in, I realized that like many others, he's part of the problem, not the solution. 

If you feel that elections are about winning, you are part of the problem.

If you feel that contributing to the winning side is more important that expressing a desire to see this country run correctly, you are part of the problem.

If you believe in keeping with the traditional two parties because a vote for a third is tacitly helping one of the other two, you are part of the problem.

The only correct moral choice in this election is to vote for who you think will be best for the job.  If you think that's Trump, vote Trump. If you think Clinton, vote Clinton.  If you think that's #SMoD, go for it! It's your vote! The only bad choice is not voting who you believe in.   We are accountable for those actions we willfully take; the only way I am accountable for helping Hillary (or Trump) is if I vote for them.

I am a Christian. I am not a consequentialist.  If I vote third party, and Hillary wins by a vote, that's not on me.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 10:18:06 am by Zbigge1031 »

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redtilt1

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2016, 12:43:21 pm »
The analysis of this article is narrow and focuses on Us domestic politics. The authors hasn't thought about the world wide consequences of a Trump presidency.
Firstly Trump is likely to give Putin a bank check in E Europe and abandon NATO. Putin will likely take advantage of this and war in the baltic and other E Europe countries is likely. Its already happening in Ukraine, something Trump seems unaware of. This could drag the whole of Europe into a new war.
Secondly, Trump's clear bigotry against Muslims is playing into ISIS hands. They have a pool of 1.6 billion Muslims to recruit from. Many more  of those are going to buy into  the ISIS narrative of the West out to crush Islam if Trump is President, so ISIS recruitment is going to sky rocket with Trump as President. Especially when trump opens up his promised torture chambers.
Thirdly Trump believes climate change is a Chinese conspiracy, so not only may he reck trading relations with the worlds second biggest economy with his bluster but he is likely to inhibit progress on climate change when we need it the most.
Voting against trump is the only moral choice.

4

AnimatedDirt

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2016, 12:54:30 pm »
http://townhall.com/columnists/waynegrudem/2016/07/28/why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice-n2199564

Sorry, it's too long to copy/paste the content, and there's no good way to summarize it.  If you care, you just have to read it~

This article spoke to the very reasons I choose to vote Trump instead of HRC.

It's not that I don't care about foreign policy, but for the moment, I'm happy to put foreign policy to the back-burner, so to speak, and in turn, make the homeland a better place.  I don't believe Trump will make any mistakes in foreign policy, but when the DNC's nominee is someone responsible for the complete failure to secure our foreign dignitaries and their support staff and military troops, I don't think Trump will do any worse...in fact, I don't think he would allow any such thing to happen if it is within his power to stop and/or minimize.

The writer is correct that there are far bigger domestic issues than worrying about everything outside of our borders just to leave our own issues to worsen to try and fix everyone else's.  ( well, that's more my point rather than the author of the article )
People are amusing.

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SPF

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2016, 01:48:44 pm »
http://townhall.com/columnists/waynegrudem/2016/07/28/why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice-n2199564

Sorry, it's too long to copy/paste the content, and there's no good way to summarize it.  If you care, you just have to read it~

I tried to get through this with an open mind, and at the start I thought I was going to agree with the author. But as I got further in, I realized that like many others, he's part of the problem, not the solution. 

If you feel that elections are about winning, you are part of the problem.

If you feel that contributing to the winning side is more important that expressing a desire to see this country run correctly, you are part of the problem.

If you believe in keeping with the traditional two parties because a vote for a third is tacitly helping one of the other two, you are part of the problem.

The only correct moral choice in this election is to vote for who you think will be best for the job.  If you think that's Trump, vote Trump. If you think Clinton, vote Clinton.  If you think that's #SMoD, go for it! It's your vote! The only bad choice is not voting who you believe in.   We are accountable for those actions we willfully take; the only way I am accountable for helping Hillary (or Trump) is if I vote for them.

I am a Christian. I am not a consequentialist.  If I vote third party, and Hillary wins by a vote, that's not on me.
I think this is tantamount to sticking your head in the sand and choosing not to live in reality.  I agree with Grudem - I did not support Trump during the primary season, I think there were 3-4 other options that were a million times better than Trump.  So during the time in which the Republicans were choosing their nominee, I did not support Trump.

But now, the reality of our next election is that either Trump or Clinton will be president.  There is no other candidate that stands a chance at being elected.  Trump or Clinton, those are the choices.  Given those choices, you should make your choice based upon which of those two you think will be the most qualified. 

Voting for Rand Paul at this point accomplishes nothing other than demonstrating your lack of ability to live in reality.
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

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Harvey

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2016, 02:35:40 pm »
But now, the reality of our next election is that either Trump or Clinton will be president.  There is no other candidate that stands a chance at being elected.  Trump or Clinton, those are the choices.  Given those choices, you should make your choice based upon which of those two you think will be the most qualified.

SPF, I think you should stick with the basics. Trump argued that Cruz's father was part of the JFK assassination plot. That rules him out for being a president in my mind. It says the following about him:

1) He's not guided by any moral foundation to go after someone's father or wife.
2) He either believes ridiculous beliefs or believes that people are stupid enough to believe ridiculous things as long as he says it.
3)  He never apologized for this which shows that the man is unwilling to admit his wrong behavior and make an amends.

The moral choice for Donald stops here. It is a disaster to put a president in office who doesn't abide by any moral inclination. Ted Cruz is a reasonable guy. If he weren't willing to endorse the creep that should tell you something. The GOP voters made a mistake. Don't double down on that mistake by putting this individual in power. That's a big mistake.

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Harvey

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2016, 02:38:10 pm »
I thought Michele Obama gave the best argument for why Trump shouldn't be president. What does it say about us if we put someone in office that our children may become. I would much rather raise a Hillary Clinton than a Donald Trump.

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GotTheGift

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2016, 02:48:19 pm »
It blows my mind that a pathological liar, serial adulterer, who mocked a disabled person can be viewed as a morally good choice for POTUS.
I post on the fly, so excuse any typos or grammatical errors.

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ATheisticSeeker

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2016, 02:54:30 pm »
1) He's not guided by any moral foundation to go after someone's father or wife.


Is this in reference to Trump going public with info about Cruz's wife's mental health?

In that case, my impression was that Cruz was the one who started the foul play in the "wife arena" by showing picture's of Trump's current wife with captions like, "Is this America's next first lady?"
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Harvey

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2016, 02:56:22 pm »
It blows my mind that a pathological liar, serial adulterer, who mocked a disabled person can be viewed as a morally good choice for POTUS.

You have to wonder where many Republicans lost their moral compass.

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Harvey

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2016, 03:00:58 pm »
In that case, my impression was that Cruz was the one who started the foul play in the "wife arena" by showing icture's of Trump's current wife with captions like, "Is this America's next first lady?"

Ted Cruz had no control over that super PAC. See here.

Although, accusing one's father of an assassination of a US President is about the lowest thing in US politics that I ever recall. I really hope that person doesn't become president. Hopefully there are enough Republicans out there like me who will vote for Hillary.

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AnimatedDirt

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2016, 03:11:49 pm »
It blows my mind that a pathological liar, serial adulterer, who mocked a disabled person can be viewed as a morally good choice for POTUS.

If you're voting for HRC, you're not really promoting any better of a person.
People are amusing.

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ATheisticSeeker

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2016, 03:29:11 pm »
here.


IMO, both men behaved dishonorably.  I don't think anything Cruz posted in the "tweet off" was genuine; it all looked calculated.
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SPF

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Re: Voting for Trump IS a Morally Good Choice
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2016, 03:33:15 pm »
Harvey:
Quote
You have to wonder where many Republicans lost their moral compass.
The following president will either be Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. My moral compass tells me that Donald will be a better president than Hillary. 

Harvey:
Quote
I thought Michele Obama gave the best argument for why Trump shouldn't be president. What does it say about us if we put someone in office that our children may become. I would much rather raise a Hillary Clinton than a Donald Trump.
But if you look at the children of the candidates it would appear that Donald's children turned out just fine, wouldn't it? Chelsea's speech was pretty much terrible.

Harvey:
Quote
SPF, I think you should stick with the basics. Trump argued that Cruz's father was part of the JFK assassination plot. That rules him out for being a president in my mind. It says the following about him:
It doesn't get more basic than recognizing that the next president will be either Hillary or Donald.  It doesn't get any more basic then recognizing that the next President may have 3 supreme court nominations.  As flawed of a candidate as Trump is, I would take him for the sole purpose of getting good supreme court judges nominated. Would you not?

Gotthegift:
Quote
It blows my mind that a pathological liar, serial adulterer, who mocked a disabled person can be viewed as a morally good choice for POTUS.
Certainly he is a flawed candidate.  He certainly was not my choice during the primary selection process.  But now the reality of the next election cycle is that the president will either be Hillary or Donald.  Do you believe Hilary to be the better choice? Hillary supports the murder of unborn children, do you?

I agree with every Republican that thinks Trump is a terrible choice for President.  But I think Hillary Clinton is an even worse choice for President than Trump.  Therefore, I will vote for Trump because that is the logical and educated thing to do. 
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln