You don't have even good reason to presuppose it, in case of logic for example we know it's unimaginable to us to not use logic, yet we can't account for it in any imaginable way so we presuppose it. But what reason other than "I would not like god to be evil" do you have to presuppose its benevolence?
First off, they wouldn't accomplish anything by being evil since they could satisfy whatever they wanted just by being omnipotent.
In addition, being omnscient/all-intelligent they would know how pain affects sentient beings, and therefore they would be able to put themselves in that being's position to understand that "what it is like" is painful and therefore not desirable unless there was something more important to accomplish. An evil being would seem to lack such omniscient/all-intelligence.
I suppose it is still possible to be all-intelligent and omniscient and still be rotten to the core, but it also doesn't strike me as a consistent being since evil brings misery and misery means that there is something that the being is not able to have. But, they are omnipotent! So, it just some that an omnipotent would put themselves in a position where they lack.
Another major factor is that we know from our own experience that it feels good to help others. While this may not translate to a higher power, it is certainly possible that goodness and the byproduct of being good is a universal that applies to any type of being.
I think I could ask the same about good. What does god acomplish by being good? What does god accomplish by anything? He already accomplished everything.
I don't quite understand that part. Omniscient evil god could put himself in position of human and experience how it is like to be affected by evil. So what? Why evil being would care about it?
Why you say evil being would lack omniscient? That's part that I don't understand at all. Is it conclusion from your previous statement that evil god would somehow care about other's people experience?
I have hard time with this passage too:/ How being evil puts one in position of not being able to have something? I don't understand what thing could you mean. I think what you meant is that if a being encounters evil it is likely to suffer misery. It's not the same case as simply being evil.
How is it an objection? Evil god doesn't exclude the existence of good in the same way as good god doesn't exclude the existence of evil. Also I could say the same about evil. We feel it's bad to harm others.
Quote from: UnreasonableFaith on October 14, 2016, 06:20:25 pmYou don't have even good reason to presuppose it, in case of logic for example we know it's unimaginable to us to not use logic, yet we can't account for it in any imaginable way so we presuppose it. But what reason other than "I would not like god to be evil" do you have to presuppose its benevolence?I think logic is one place to start. If we agree that the arguments for God's existence are successful in terms of convincing us of God's existence (or we are ourselves convinced of God's existence by our own personal encounters), then it only makes sense that an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being would be good. First off, they wouldn't accomplish anything by being evil since they could satisfy whatever they wanted just by being omnipotent. In addition, being omnscient/all-intelligent they would know how pain affects sentient beings, and therefore they would be able to put themselves in that being's position to understand that "what it is like" is painful and therefore not desirable unless there was something more important to accomplish. An evil being would seem to lack such omniscient/all-intelligence.I suppose it is still possible to be all-intelligent and omniscient and still be rotten to the core, but it also doesn't strike me as a consistent being since evil brings misery and misery means that there is something that the being is not able to have. But, they are omnipotent! So, it just some that an omnipotent would put themselves in a position where they lack.Another major factor is that we know from our own experience that it feels good to help others. While this may not translate to a higher power, it is certainly possible that goodness and the byproduct of being good is a universal that applies to any type of being.
First, a common misperception must be clarified first. Many think of Almighty God as the ruler of this world, the one who is in direct control of everything that happens. “Not one atom or molecule of the universe is outside his active rule,” said the president of one theological seminary. But does the Bible teach that?Not at all. Many are surprised to learn what the Bible says about who really is the ruler of the world. 1 John 5:19 reveals: “We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the Evil one.” (WNT) Who is this Evil one? Christ Jesus identified him as none other than Satan the Devil himself. (John 14:30) But that makes more sense, doesn’t it? After all, Satan is cruel, deceptive, and hateful — traits that underlie many of the causes for the suffering people experience all across the globe.Why, though, would God allow Satan to rule?Let’s use an illustration to help us better understand what’s going on exactly. For instance, just how might an adoring and capable mother or father feel if suddenly charged with being negligent and deceptive with their young children as well as abusing their authority over them? Would they disprove those slanderous allegations by assaulting their accuser? Certainly not! Without a doubt, by responding like this, they would give credibility to the charges.This depiction helps clarify Jehovah God’s strategy for managing the challenge raised against him at the dawn of man’s historical past in a region identified as Eden. There God Almighty announced to the very first pair of human beings, Adam and Eve, a fantastic undertaking. These were to fill up the globe, take care of it, and thus transform it into a worldwide paradise. (Genesis 1:28)Truly being a big-hearted Father, Jehovah handed Adam and Eve an exquisite haven with all of its succulent fruits. Just one tree, though, was not in bounds for them — “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.” By avoiding this tree, Adam and Eve would indeed display their absolute trust in their Father, accepting that he had the right to determine that which was good and evil for his children . — Genesis 2:16, 17.Lamentably, one amongst God’s spirit sons, inspired by the want to be worshiped, led Eve to mistakenly believe that when she consumed the outlawed fruit, she would never perish. (Genesis 2:17; 3:1–5) And so, this evil angel, Satan, flagrantly contradicted God, in effect calling him a liar! To boot, Satan proceeded to accuse God of withholding critical facts from Adam and Eve. Humanity, Satan suggested, could determine on their own what was good and what was bad. Stated more forcefully, Satan charged God of being an unfit Sovereign and Father insinuating that he could perform a significantly better job himself if only given a chance.Through the use of these astute and fatal mendacities, this angel fashioned himself into Satan the Devil. (From the ancient Hebrew his name means “Resister the Slanderer.”) But how did Adam and Eve respond to these outrageous allegations from this complete stranger? Did the profound love and gratitude they felt for their Father compel them to defend His honor vigorously? Did they berate him for even daring to insinuate their Father was anything but a kind, generous and loving God?Far from it. Tragically, these ingrates chose to side with Satan and turn their backs on God. — Genesis 3:6.True, Jehovah could have eradicated these rebels right then and there but bear in mind, as we already saw with our representation above, these kinds of issues can never be worked out with violent retaliation. Take into account too that when Satan confronted God Almighty, many angels were paying close attention to what was happening in Eden.And so, by enticing Adam and Eve into deciding on autonomy from their Maker, Satan established a family who would, in fact, not be self-reliant but, as you see, live under his thumb. Prompted consciously or unwittingly by their “father,” the Devil, this family would be made to adopt his standards and values. (John 8:44)Still, might this way of life bring them true liberty as well as enduring happiness? Jehovah understood full well that it would never. Even so, he left the rebels to go after their ill-fated ambition, for only by doing so could the dilemma brought up in Eden find a resolution for all time.So, for upwards of 6,000 years now, humankind has erected one society after another, experimenting with more and more varieties of rulership and rules of behavior. What do you think of the results? Are you overjoyed with the outcome? Would you say the human family is happy, undisturbed, and united? Undeniably, the answer is absolutely no! In its place, wars, famines, catastrophes, disease, together with the unspeakable loss of life has besieged humanity, inflicting “futility,” “pain,” and “groaning,” much like the Holy Bible reported long ago. — Romans 8:19–22; Ecclesiastes 8:9. The people of the world have ruined “their lives by their foolishness [but] then are angry at the LORD.” -Proverbs 19:3 (NLT) (Bracket mine.)Nonetheless, some might wonder, ‘Why has God not averted these disasters?’ Honestly, that would certainly be an injustice, as it would undoubtedly blur the issue by creating the impression that rebelling against God is without dangerous repercussions. Accordingly, Jehovah has not been in the background protecting against all the crimes and calamities that result, explicitly or in a roundabout way, from disobedience to him. Jehovah could never be party to the fatal myth that Satan’s approach could turn out well!Notwithstanding, Jehovah has not been apathetic to what has befallen his creation. Truth be told, since the rebellion in Eden, he has been very active. Case in point, he inspired Bible amanuensis to document his assurance that a future “seed” would undoubtedly overthrow Satan and his failed rulership. (Genesis 3:15) On top of that, via that Seed, God would constitute a governing administration, a heavenly Kingdom, which would bless obedient ones, end all causes of misery and even death itself. — Genesis 22:18; Psalm 46:9; 72:16; Isaiah 25:8; 33:24; Daniel 7:13, 14.As a step towards the fulfillment of these wonderful promises, Jehovah sent to the earth the One who would become the Ruler of that Kingdom; this one being none other than Jesus Christ, his very own Son. (Galatians 3:16) In accordance with God’s purpose for him, Jesus focused his teaching on God’s Kingdom. (Luke 4:43) In fact, Christ provided a living preview of what he would accomplish as King of that Kingdom. He fed the hungry by the thousands, healed the sick, resurrected the dead, and even showed his power over the natural elements by calming a violent storm. (Matthew 14:14–21; Mark 4:37–39; John 11:43, 44) Concerning Jesus, the Bible states: “No matter how many the promises of God are, they have become Yes by means of him.” — 2 Corinthians 1:20.All those who listen to Jesus and come “out of the world” — the system of things that is estranged from God and ruled by Satan — are welcomed into Jehovah’s family. (John 15:19) Love governs this global family of sedulous Christians committed to peace and marked by their determination to eradicate any trace of bigotry and racism from its midst. — Malachi 3:17, 18; John 13:34, 35. Instead of upholding the views and ideals of the present world, sedulous Christians support and proclaim God’s Kingdom in obedience to Jesus’ command recorded at Matthew 24:14.Now think: Who preach the “good news of the kingdom” worldwide? Who have refused, as a global spiritual family, to engage in warfare or participate in divisive national/tribal disputes? And who let God’s Word guide their conduct whether its lofty standards are popular or not? (1 John 5:3)If you haven’t already done so, you would do well to find these and join them.Source
Morality, good and evil, empathy, conscience all make perfect sense in evolutionary terms. However, on creationism, evolution is just a misconception and even if we accept that humans are evolved beings. God would still not be. So what sense does it make that a non evolved being would be empathetic or have any kind of conscience that would motivate it to be good? Isn't the projection of these human characteristics onto God kind of illogical? as such, I don't see any reason why we should presume that God is morally good. I'd also posit that the God depicted in much of the OT is anything but morally good.