SPF

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PCUSA vs PCA (Gordon, I'm looking at YOU)
« on: January 30, 2017, 11:25:05 am »
Gordon, I was a little surprised to see in your signature that you're seeking ordination with PCUSA compared to PCA, given their extreme differences.

On ordination for example, PCUSA permits both men and women, as well as non-celibate homosexuals.  PCA only ordains men that are in, "obedience to the NT standard for those who rule the church and teach doctrine."

As far as innerancy, PCUSA does not teach it, while PCA does.

PCUSA teaches that abortion can be morally acceptable though that it ought to be a last resort. PCA teaches that abortion is immoral.

With regards to divorce, the PCUSA general assembly moved to amend sections of the Westminster Confession to eliminate "innocent parties" language and broadened it to include no-fault divorce. PCA teaches that divorce is sin except in the case of adultery or desertion.

With regards to homosexuality, for PCUSA, In 2010, the General Assembly expressed that “The PCUSA has no consensus in the interpretation of Scripture on issues of same-sex practice.” Currently, homosexuals (both celibate and non-celibate) can serve as ministers and the churches endorses same-sex “blessing” ceremonies. Recently, the General Assembly amended the Book of Order to redefine marriage as between “two people” rather than between a man and a woman and allows ministers to perform any legal marriage between two people. That amendment will require the approval of a majority of the presbyteries before it will take effect.

PCA teaches that homosexual practice is a sin.

Given the posts that you've made on this forum, I actually figured you for a more conservative Christian than this. So what gives, you really consider yourself more align with PCUSA as opposed to PCA?

And as far as anyone else reading this, which of these two branches of Presbyterian do you identify with more? I would be interested in that as well.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 02:18:17 pm by SPF »
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depthcharge623

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Re: PCUSA vs PCA (Gordon, I'm looking at YOU)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 01:52:31 pm »
I am a member of an EPC church which is more biblically solid than PCUSA,  although probably not (on average)  as conservative as PCA.  Their slogan is "In Essentials, Unity; In Non-essentials Diversity; In All Things, Charity."  This means they give some flexibility from church to church on what they consider Non-essential doctrines. My actual church is pretty conservative and pretty in line with the PCA.  The PCUSA is in grave error in my opinion. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 02:06:27 pm by depthcharge623 »

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Gordon Tubbs

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Re: PCUSA vs PCA (Gordon, I'm looking at YOU)
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2017, 09:54:37 pm »
Oh yay! My first "I'm callin' you out!" post. lol

When it comes to exact denominational quibbles there are a lot of provisions within PCUSA that basically empower the individual church - to approve gay ordination, gay marriage, and any other social issue you can think of - and make their own decision. Oddly, this makes PCUSA churches out to be Baptist (organizationally speaking). My church is fairly conservative-leaning. Our session probably wouldn't ordain any gay people or allow a gay marriage.

As far as my ordination goes, I just need to get ordained, plain and simple. I grew up in PCUSA, so securing an ordination was easier. (Alternatively if I wanted to jump ship to PCA or some other denomination that I felt more aligned with, I'd have to jump through their hoops like membership, confirmation, etc.)

One day I'll be back on active duty as a Navy Chaplain, where denominations mean nothing.

 
Ordained Minister of the Word and Sacrament (PCUSA)
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Grace4Free

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Re: PCUSA vs PCA (Gordon, I'm looking at YOU)
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 11:04:08 pm »
Thanks Gordon!  Appreciating your service past and future.  Study well.
What is your ultimate authority?

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SPF

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Re: PCUSA vs PCA (Gordon, I'm looking at YOU)
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2017, 07:35:44 am »
Thanks for the reply Gordon, that makes perfect sense, and thank you for your service.

But ya know, with regards to individual church powers, PCUS Church property belongs to the denomination, whereas PCA Church property belongs to the local congregation without any right of reversion whatsoever to any Presbytery or General Assembly.

So I don't think there is more freedom within a PCUSA congregation to make decisions that go against their general assembly as there would be for a PCA church. Just sayin!
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

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Language-Gamer

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Re: PCUSA vs PCA (Gordon, I'm looking at YOU)
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2017, 11:08:46 am »
I agree with the PCA more about which position is correct, but if I were part of the PCUSA, I don't know that I would switch to the PCA. There's a lot of complicated issues at play, it seems to me.
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depthcharge623

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Re: PCUSA vs PCA (Gordon, I'm looking at YOU)
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2017, 11:12:15 am »
I had heard a few years ago that there was a push within the PCUSA to force individual churches to ordain women, practicing homosexuals, and marry same sex couples.  I don't know what became of this.

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Gordon Tubbs

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Re: PCUSA vs PCA (Gordon, I'm looking at YOU)
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2017, 12:11:33 pm »
This last decade has really been a mess in terms of the General Assembly. There are some PCUSA presbyteries that opposed gay ordination and marriage, and so I think that this was the denomination attempting to conform to liberal politics for the sake of appearances.

My wife's home church was PCUSA and refused to tow the line, so they had to buyout the mortgage on the land and building before moving to EPC. It was not cheap. The reality is many congregations can't afford to disagree, and they wind up remaining within PCUSA out of obligation. That's why they had to write this into the gay marriage amendment:

Quote
A couple requesting a service of Christian marriage shall receive instruction from the teaching elder, who may agree to the couple’s request only if, in the judgment of the teaching elder, the couple demonstrate sufficient understanding of the nature of the marriage covenant and commitment to living their lives together according to its values. In making this decision, the teaching elder may seek the counsel of the session, which has authority to permit or deny the use of church property for a marriage service.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 12:16:26 pm by GordonTubbs »
Ordained Minister of the Word and Sacrament (PCUSA)
Regent University, Master of Divinity (Chaplain Ministry)
US Navy (Active 2004-2009, Reserves 2012-2018)