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1. A simple question: "Do Christians have faith in oxygen/air they breath"?

No Christian has answered yes to the above question, as far as I have encountered.

Their answers to the above question could be summarized to be something like: "I don't need faith in air, because it's obviously there, because we breath it constantly".

2. Another pertinent question emerges: "So why then do theists have faith in God?"

3. Thereafter, faith in God is extremely disrespectful of God, as it is an admittance that there is no actual surety on whether God exists!"

I welcome intellectual responses.

Signature: I am interested in completing a novel learning model I call the "Supersymmetric Artificial Neural Network".
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 11:41:07 am by CausalCode »



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Except the bible itself portrays faith as a virtue:

Hebrews 11: 1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.


Axe Elf

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Re: Debate Proposal: Faith in God is actually extremely disrespectful of God
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2019, 07:35:32 pm »
I believe that all "facts" (outside of the basic fact of one's own existence) are based in faith.

That is, the only thing that we can KNOW to be true is the fact of our own existence (and even that fact can only be known to oneself, and not to anyone else).

Anything else that we believe to be true is based on faith in one of the following three things:

1)  Faith in our own personal experience; that is, that a "real world" exists outside of our own heads, and that our sensations and perceptions are at least to some degree representative of that reality.

2)  Faith in the testimony of others regarding their own personal experiences.

3)  Faith in the axioms of formal reasoning systems.

So in an honest epistemological analysis, there is no actual surety that ANYTHING (other than myself) exists.  I choose to have faith in those things which seem to me to be the most reasonable.  I see no disrespect in choosing to believe that something exists when it may, in fact, not exist--whether that thing is oxygen or the square root of -1 or the Leaning Tower of Pisa or God.



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Re: Debate Proposal: Faith in God is actually extremely disrespectful of God
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2019, 07:57:22 pm »
It could be argued that belief allows you to interact with something further.

Looking at the oxygen analogy, you don't have to believe in oxygen for it to benefit you by breathing it.

But if you 1) believe in it, and 2) have knowledge about its properties, you can use techniques to manipulate it for your own advantage. For instance, you can create it from water, you can compress it, you can create hyperbaric chambers, etc.

I'm arguing for the theistic point here even though I'm a (recent) agnostic, so maybe instead of devil's advocate I'm playing "angel's advocate"? ;)