Nature of God

Providence

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jayceeii

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The Holy Spirit and Determinism
« on: December 27, 2018, 10:21:03 am »
According to Hinduism, the souls are undergoing an upward progression via transmigration, whereby they are achieving purification and eventual moksha. Supposing that this were true instead of the concept from the West that the soul is created at birth (neither side citing evidence, only conflicting scripture), it follows that these what you might call “animal souls rising,” are not only corrupt and in need of purification (sinful), but also weak. They’re accustomed to finding food and procreating, with no social life. This might even explain an emphasis on the family and hatred of communalism, should that exist in such a population. They might not even be able to think about such issues.

In that type of scenario, one might imagine that a Good God, eager to see the souls grow and complete their purification, might perform other duties besides transmigration (the Hindus propose no mechanism, but who else would accomplish this?) In fact it might be possible for the Invisible God to enter the mind of man directly, Spirit affecting spirit. Clearly if this is so there has been a general failure, since God does not overcome evil this way. The Christians have always been celebrating this possibility, insisting that the Holy Spirit does enter them, bringing inspiration and guidance. They haven’t understood it might not be a gift, but a necessity.

If this is so, I’m wondering what the evidence would be, and who might be able to see it. The Christians claim that they are able to see it, but I’d doubt they see the full extent of it. There’s been a lot of shouting about the Presence of the Holy Spirit, but even in this theology forum there is no logical debate about it. It should be obvious, at least, that the Lord must be able to see this. The Lord is in fact the standard for the failures of the Holy Spirit in man. As they fail to rise to His personal standards, He sees them failing as independent souls but also God failing in them, even as they shout, “Hosanna.”

I bring it up, since if God has such a secret interface, it not only sheds an entirely new light on freewill vs. determinism, but opens a possible door for a mechanism of Judgment. If it turns out God is influencing the decisions of man, though failing overall to bring virtue, the destinies of men are being chosen for them, to a large extent. It may go a lot farther than awakening a sleeping driver, or causing a cruel man to show mercy. Then again we’d see that God’s will is terrible for man, having allowed so much evil to occur. Possibly with a little cooperativeness, instead of fighting every step, human lives would go better.

If this is true there is no way it wouldn’t make it into the (eventual) universal religion, as the millennia continue to pass. Five thousand years is a short time, compared to the five billion years astronomers say remain. The Christians would then not only admit their sinfulness, but also their weakness, trying to recognize the Holy Spirit enters their minds not only as a favor, but as a requirement if they are to do well, and not slip into unhappy paths.

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Maxximiliann

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1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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jayceeii

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Re: The Holy Spirit and Determinism
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 06:04:42 pm »
"The hegemony of one caste over all kinds of social spheres — from media, legislature, bureaucracy, judiciary to academia and civil societies — is the reality of India and one cannot deny it. And so is the fact that caste violence is directly proportional to gender violence."

How can you support such evil?
This looks like you read the word “Hinduism” then flew into a tirade. Reality is as it is, not as men would like it. The caste system is an obvious consequence of talking about rebirth, to fallen mankind. The phenomenon is an argument in favor of my “hypothesis,” the animal souls rising up to no good.

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Maxximiliann

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Re: The Holy Spirit and Determinism
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 06:09:44 pm »
"The hegemony of one caste over all kinds of social spheres — from media, legislature, bureaucracy, judiciary to academia and civil societies — is the reality of India and one cannot deny it. And so is the fact that caste violence is directly proportional to gender violence."

How can you support such evil?
This looks like you read the word “Hinduism” then flew into a tirade. Reality is as it is, not as men would like it. The caste system is an obvious consequence of talking about rebirth, to fallen mankind. The phenomenon is an argument in favor of my “hypothesis,” the animal souls rising up to no good.

And a hypothesis is opinion, not fact.
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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jayceeii

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Re: The Holy Spirit and Determinism
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2019, 06:32:38 pm »
And a hypothesis is opinion, not fact.
Well, we know no one here at the forum is dogmatic or presenting himself as a prophet. That can't be done because the Christians have made it illegal. Prophets had their time, and now it is mankind's turn.

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Maxximiliann

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Re: The Holy Spirit and Determinism
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2019, 06:53:32 pm »
And a hypothesis is opinion, not fact.
Well, we know no one here at the forum is dogmatic or presenting himself as a prophet. That can't be done because the Christians have made it illegal. Prophets had their time, and now it is mankind's turn.

And opinions are not fact.
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

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jayceeii

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Re: The Holy Spirit and Determinism
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2019, 07:51:11 am »
And a hypothesis is opinion, not fact.
Well, we know no one here at the forum is dogmatic or presenting himself as a prophet. That can't be done because the Christians have made it illegal. Prophets had their time, and now it is mankind's turn.
And opinions are not fact.
There's an even deeper problem, words are not reality. Individuals are limited to words to express themselves, but even when words are carved ever so closely to reflect the Real, the interpretation of those words depends upon the experience of the recipients, of the Real. The mind forms a pattern of reality, and is not reality itself. The point about Christianity is that no attempt was made by the revealing authorities to present mechanisms for what the spiritual realm is like and how things happen there, and in two thousand years no Christian has arisen to notice this absence, which is shocking in hindsight. Christianity amounts to hand-waving. It's a castle in the air, a house of dreams—or nightmares. The same set of words can have radically different interpretations, a weakness of poetry.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 07:52:55 am by jayceeii »

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Maxximiliann

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Re: The Holy Spirit and Determinism
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2019, 09:19:22 am »
And a hypothesis is opinion, not fact.
Well, we know no one here at the forum is dogmatic or presenting himself as a prophet. That can't be done because the Christians have made it illegal. Prophets had their time, and now it is mankind's turn.
And opinions are not fact.
There's an even deeper problem, words are not reality. Individuals are limited to words to express themselves, but even when words are carved ever so closely to reflect the Real, the interpretation of those words depends upon the experience of the recipients, of the Real. The mind forms a pattern of reality, and is not reality itself. The point about Christianity is that no attempt was made by the revealing authorities to present mechanisms for what the spiritual realm is like and how things happen there, and in two thousand years no Christian has arisen to notice this absence, which is shocking in hindsight. Christianity amounts to hand-waving. It's a castle in the air, a house of dreams—or nightmares. The same set of words can have radically different interpretations, a weakness of poetry.

When was the last time you read the Bible in full?
1+1+1=3 NOT 1

"Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry ​YOU​ off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." - Colossians 2:8

8

jayceeii

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Re: The Holy Spirit and Determinism
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2019, 06:36:41 pm »
When was the last time you read the Bible in full?
The Bible is a violent mask meant to fit violent minds. Gentle people reading it are horrified at its pages, in particular how the Invisible God is depicted like a jealous and racist human being, and how Christianity is set up as a religion of perpetual crucifixion.