Hey everybody. Just wanted to say hello and to say how much I appreciate WLC. It was through reading his works and listening to his podcasts that I finally gave in and gave my life back to the Lord Jesus Christ. I left the church in 2008 due to some issues that I had with perceived scientific inaccuracies in the Bible and due to the numerous "errors" that I found in my study of the Bible, I became a member of the Thinking Atheist forum and was a frequent poster there. God in his wisdom allowed the forum owner to shut it down leaving me time and energy to explore WLC who we often discussed in the forum. I realized that I had never actually heard the man or read his works and was intrigued enough to read On Guard and found enough material there to shake my atheistic stand. I am now back in fellowship with my local church and growing to love the Lord daily. I still have issues with the "errors" I see in the Bible and would love to discuss them but don't see a forum topic dedicated to the subject. Maybe. if the mods agree, I'll start one up.Regards,Phil
I still have issues with the "errors" I see in the Bible and would love to discuss them but don't see a forum topic dedicated to the subject. Maybe. if the mods agree, I'll start one up.
I agree, Axe. I'm not speaking so much about the scientific "errors" in the Bible so much as the discrepancies found within it. A simple example would be the feeding of the 5000.After feeding the 5000, Mark 6:45 says:, "Immediately he made his disciples get into the boat and go on ahead to the other side, to Bethsaida, while he dismissed the crowd."But John 6: 16, says that "When evening came, his disciples went down to the sea, got into a boat, and started across the sea to Capernaum."Now Bethsaida and Capernaum are on opposite sides of the sea of Galilee. So, where did the feeding of the 5000 occur? We know it was the same event, because both accounts mention the little boy with five loaves and two fishes and the miracle of Jesus walking on the water occurred immediately after the feeding of the 5000 in both accounts.I've not read a satisfactory explanation of this discrepancy and any input would be welcome.There are many other such discrepancies that used to bother me. While they don't bother my faith anymore, my intellectual itch needs to be scratched.Phil
While I agree that the Bible is neither a scientific nor a history textbook, it still must at least be internally consistent, where editorial or scribal errors cannot be attributed.
As I said earlier, the example I gave above is purely an intellectual query and does not impact my new-found faith in Jesus Christ. Any answer would be most welcome.
Quote from: PAbraham on February 20, 2019, 04:28:17 pmWhile I agree that the Bible is neither a scientific nor a history textbook, it still must at least be internally consistent, where editorial or scribal errors cannot be attributed.It must be internally consistent? Who says? You?Is it important that turtles and rabbits can't talk to learn something from the story of the tortoise and the hare?Ask five different people what they saw at the scene of an automobile accident, and you'll get five different answers. Different people interpret things differently, and attend to different things, and often get some of the details flat out wrong. It's not important to me whether Jesus was headed east or west when He walked on the water, and to get caught up in that minutia is to miss the whole point.Read the four Gospels and you'll get four different accounts of what happened at the empty tomb on Easter morning--who visited the tomb, how many angels were there, etc.--but the details aren't important. The important thing to learn from the "internally inconsistent" accounts is that Jesus rose from the dead.Quote from: PAbraham on February 20, 2019, 04:28:17 pmAs I said earlier, the example I gave above is purely an intellectual query and does not impact my new-found faith in Jesus Christ. Any answer would be most welcome.You have THE answer already.
I'm not sure why you're in attack mode. I already told you I'm a believer.
I simply have questions about stories in the Bible that don't quite gel with each other. If someone has an explanation other than that the Bible is fallible, I'd like to hear it. There are explanations or harmonizations enough for some of the more well known discrepancies. I simply pointed out that the story of the feeding of the 5000 does not have a satisfactory explanation.
The story of the tortoise and the hare exactly demonstrates my point. The story is internally consistent (that the tortoise and the hare don't speak is immaterial - the fact that they were having a race is enough to anthropomorphize the animals). If, however, we read in another version (or chapter or gospel) that the hare won the race or that the hare turned into a wolf and ate the tortoise, then the story is internally inconsistent and must be investigated further.
Also, the point of internal consistency is vitally important. It is for precisely that reason that some heretical gospels and pseudoepigraphia were not included in the canon. Their contents would NOT have been internally consistent with the accepted canon.
Quote from: PAbraham on February 21, 2019, 04:47:05 pmI'm not sure why you're in attack mode. I already told you I'm a believer.I'm not sure why you think I'm in attack mode. I'm in education mode.
Thanks for the encouragement, Natus. After the Thinking Atheist forum closed, many of the members fled to TTA Lifeboat, a forum created solely to keep ex-TTA members connected and to export material from TTA that Seth Andrews, the owner of TTA was unwilling to share after the forum shut down. Needless to say that decision made him extraordinarily unpopular. Some of us, myself included, had several years worth of posts that we wanted saved.I have been debating posting my decision on TTA Lifeboat. I've no doubt it will come as a shock to some of my correspondents. But, maybe this was God's roundabout way of reaching some of them through me. I'm just grateful he did not allow me to die in my apostasy. Phil