lapwing

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #135 on: August 14, 2019, 12:59:46 pm »
Quote from: Wretch
Amazing.  Did you miss the gentle hint to get back on topic here?
So why did you not make a similar comment in response to Trinity's post 3.1?

Note I'm querying your posting (or lack of posting) in this forum, not your family history. That would be an ad hominem attack. Something you do in this forum far too often.

The "kerfuffle" is because you only quote data that supports your biased view and ignore the rest.

Actually, to Wretch's credit he did make a similar comment:

''Maybe deserving of a separate thread.''

But on a different subject raised by Trinity: not the post by Trinity on vaccination that I indicated.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 01:09:34 pm by lapwing »
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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lapwing

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #136 on: August 14, 2019, 01:33:28 pm »
See here for a proper explanation of the tide gauge data and sea level rise measurements:

https://skepticalscience.com/sea-level-rise.htm

The acceleration you speak of is indeed compatible with the data. It is a small effect over the time of measurements, so not obvious, but the data does indicate that it is there. And sea levels are most definitely rising on average.

Hello kurros,

Thank you for your excellent posts on sea level rise in response to Wretch.

I was too busy to respond to Wretch's extra long graph filled post but I was struck that he made no mention of post glacial rebound and other effects that affect local sea levels. It also struck me that such long cut-and-paste posts are antisocial in what is a communal resource.

Am I right to think that Wretch isn't denying sea level rise just the acceleration of it. People living near to sea level should still be concerned about increases in sea level whether accelerating or not.
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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wonderer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #137 on: August 14, 2019, 08:06:17 pm »


I did read all the short stories I hadn't read previously though.
Any favorites? I enjoyed the whole list to be honest.

Spoiler alert.

The one that jumps to mind without reviewing the list is The Last Rock Fight.  Possibly because I could relate to the idea of the rock fight quite easily.  I would have been an enthusiastic rock fighter when I was a teen.  I like strategy games, and running around in the woods, and had my own paintball gun when I was in my 20s.

The characters and events were very believable to me, and on one hand the characters and events were well detailed enough to make for an engrossing story, but on the other hand ambiguous enough to leave me wondering what to think.  Was the murderer's girlfriend raped, or was she simply attracted to the bad boy that all the other girls were attracted to?  Why is the narrator in the school for emotionally disturbed kids, and how out of touch is his view?

Such questions aside, it definitely makes one think about the unfortunate consequences that can arise from loyalty, with two people dead as a result of the narrator's loyalty and failure to intervene.

"The world needed that of us, to maintain—by our example, by our very existence—a world that would keep learning and questioning, that would remain free in thought, inquiry, and word." - Alice Dreger

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wonderer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #138 on: August 14, 2019, 09:12:47 pm »
Be gentle, but did you read Good Old Neon? Thoughts?

Yeah, it was very interesting, but my ability to relate was limited.  The author is obviously extremely intelligent, and in a way that I see as kind of on the opposite end of a spectrum, of ways to be intelligent, from me.  (Not to suggest I'm equally intelligent in any sense, just that much of his experience of life is perhaps particularly alien to me.)

I was impressed by the author writing so articulately in seemingly never ending sentences.

It was sad to see the way his self awareness was so alienating for him.  (Yes I am assuming it was somewhat autobiographical fiction.  I have a hard time believing it could be otherwise.)

I'm tempted to read Infinite Jest, if for no other reason than to get a sense of what things look like from such a different perspective.  I'm not sure I am up for the amount of angst I anticipate from Infinite Jest though.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 10:07:03 pm by wonderer »
"The world needed that of us, to maintain—by our example, by our very existence—a world that would keep learning and questioning, that would remain free in thought, inquiry, and word." - Alice Dreger

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Language-Gamer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #139 on: August 14, 2019, 10:06:30 pm »
Be gentle, but did you read Good Old Neon? Thoughts?

Yeah, it was very interesting, but my ability to relate was limited.  The author is obviously extremely intelligent, and in a way that I see as kind of on the opposite end of a spectrum of ways to be intelligent from I.  (Not to suggest I'm equally intelligent in any sense, just that much of his experience of life is perhaps particularly alien to me.)

I was impressed by the author writing so articulately in seemingly never ending sentences.

It was sad to see the way his self awareness was so alienating for him.  (Yes I am assuming it was somewhat autobiographical fiction.  I have a hard time believing it could be otherwise.)

I'm tempted to read Infinite Jest, if for no other reason than to get a sense of what things look like from such a different perspective.  I'm not sure I am up for the amount of angst I anticipate from Infinite Jest though.

Fair. There’s a famous quote from IJ where he says to be human is to be fundamentally goo prone and pathetic. So maybe that’s similar to what you’re getting at. But yes, his writing style is something else. IJ is wonderful. If you have specific questions in order to gauge if it’s worth it. I’ll shoot strsight with you.
I told her all about how we been livin' a lie
And that they love to see us all go to prison or die
Like, "Baby, look at how they show us on the TV screen"
But all she ever want me to do is unzip her jeans

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kurros

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #140 on: August 15, 2019, 12:48:17 am »
See here for a proper explanation of the tide gauge data and sea level rise measurements:

https://skepticalscience.com/sea-level-rise.htm

The acceleration you speak of is indeed compatible with the data. It is a small effect over the time of measurements, so not obvious, but the data does indicate that it is there. And sea levels are most definitely rising on average.

Hello kurros,

Thank you for your excellent posts on sea level rise in response to Wretch.

I was too busy to respond to Wretch's extra long graph filled post but I was struck that he made no mention of post glacial rebound and other effects that affect local sea levels. It also struck me that such long cut-and-paste posts are antisocial in what is a communal resource.

Am I right to think that Wretch isn't denying sea level rise just the acceleration of it. People living near to sea level should still be concerned about increases in sea level whether accelerating or not.

It's pretty unclear what Wretch is arguing. From his words it seems that he is only denying the acceleration of sea level rise, but he posted tide gauge data showing that relative sea levels are going up some places and down other places. I have no idea what that was about, since one can obviously not tell anything useful from those plots. He might have thought the acceleration should be apparent in all of them for some reason? I don't know.

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bdsimon

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #141 on: August 15, 2019, 08:30:04 am »


I did read all the short stories I hadn't read previously though.
Any favorites? I enjoyed the whole list to be honest.

Spoiler alert.

The one that jumps to mind without reviewing the list is The Last Rock Fight.  Possibly because I could relate to the idea of the rock fight quite easily.  I would have been an enthusiastic rock fighter when I was a teen.  I like strategy games, and running around in the woods, and had my own paintball gun when I was in my 20s.

The characters and events were very believable to me, and on one hand the characters and events were well detailed enough to make for an engrossing story, but on the other hand ambiguous enough to leave me wondering what to think.  Was the murderer's girlfriend raped, or was she simply attracted to the bad boy that all the other girls were attracted to?  Why is the narrator in the school for emotionally disturbed kids, and how out of touch is his view?

Such questions aside, it definitely makes one think about the unfortunate consequences that can arise from loyalty, with two people dead as a result of the narrator's loyalty and failure to intervene.
Obviously, since I listed that one, it is one of my favorites as well. It is likely an age thing but the story resonated with me on several levels as well. When I was growing up we used to have these massive tag games we would play in the woods behind our old elementary school when we were in 6th-9th grade or so. It might sound weird, but the woods were spooky and there was an old well and an old slaughterhouse in there. When we got older, tag wasn't exciting enough. So we started playing tag with BB guns instead. Good times. We also had a massive snowball fight (more like iceball fight) that turned bloody. Not quite the same as the story but I think of these guys and that setting when I think about this story.


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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #142 on: August 15, 2019, 02:10:52 pm »
Am I right to think that Wretch isn't denying sea level rise just the acceleration of it. People living near to sea level should still be concerned about increases in sea level whether accelerating or not.

Exactly. Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my prior posts.  The language can be confusing.  Sea level, relative sea level, rise in sea level, rate of sea level rise, acceleration of the rate of sea level rise; that last on in bold is what is at issue.  The tide gauges show decadal variability but no multidecadal acceleration.  Sea level is on average and over the long term (multi-decadal to century scales) still rising at a rate of about 8 inches (20 cm) per century, as it has been for well over 100 years.

I presented the entire collection of sea level tide gauge plots not to be rude, but to help unequivocally demonstrate the point that there is no acceleration in the rise of sea level, anywhere locally, or for the planet as a whole, which is contrary to a major prediction of climate crisis theory. 

If sea level don't accelerate, the CO2 must proliferate.

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kurros

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #143 on: August 15, 2019, 02:45:43 pm »
Am I right to think that Wretch isn't denying sea level rise just the acceleration of it. People living near to sea level should still be concerned about increases in sea level whether accelerating or not.

Exactly. Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my prior posts.  The language can be confusing.  Sea level, relative sea level, rise in sea level, rate of sea level rise, acceleration of the rate of sea level rise; that last on in bold is what is at issue.  The tide gauges show decadal variability but no multidecadal acceleration.  Sea level is on average and over the long term (multi-decadal to century scales) still rising at a rate of about 8 inches (20 cm) per century, as it has been for well over 100 years.

I presented the entire collection of sea level tide gauge plots not to be rude, but to help unequivocally demonstrate the point that there is no acceleration in the rise of sea level, anywhere locally, or for the planet as a whole, which is contrary to a major prediction of climate crisis theory. 

If sea level don't accelerate, the CO2 must proliferate.

But you were wrong, it *is* accelerating. But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't disprove climate change. The acceleration could have just been too small to measure yet. And there are a zillion other indicators of climate change that you can't just ignore.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 02:49:26 pm by kurros »

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #144 on: August 15, 2019, 02:49:50 pm »
I'm confident that I'm not wrong on this, but if we are to go along with your contention, would you please explain how does an acceleration in the rate of sea level rise avoid detection by the tide gauges?

Like this one for example...


The relative sea level trend is 0.72 millimeters/year with a 95% confidence

interval of +/- 0.09 mm/yr based on monthly mean sea level data from

1862 to 2011 which is equivalent to a change of 0.24 feet in 100 years.
Data for 1862-1931 are monthly mean tide level & a datum offset correction
of 0.014 m was applied based on the systematic difference in datum between
the stations during the period of overlap. Station relocated in February 1973.
Aberdeen, Scottland, UK

I'm not claiming to disprove climate change my dear fellow science professional.  I'm claiming to expose the fallacy of anthropogenic climate crisis.

Climate changes, always has, always will.  Nobody is denying that.

There is zero hard evidence proving an impending climate crisis, none, zero, nada.

The history of sea level is revealing.  Humans are apparently incredibly adaptable.  Go figure.

« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 03:17:05 pm by Wretch »

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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #145 on: August 15, 2019, 03:10:41 pm »
Quote from: Wretch
Amazing.  Did you miss the gentle hint to get back on topic here?
So why did you not make a similar comment in response to Trinity's post 3.1?

Note I'm querying your posting (or lack of posting) in this forum, not your family history. That would be an ad hominem attack. Something you do in this forum far too often.

The "kerfuffle" is because you only quote data that supports your biased view and ignore the rest.

Actually, to Wretch's credit he did make a similar comment:

''Maybe deserving of a separate thread.''

But on a different subject raised by Trinity: not the post by Trinity on vaccination that I indicated.

It was a similar comment, that is what you asked.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #146 on: August 15, 2019, 03:15:22 pm »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics, (including that) the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."

''suggested'', ''could be'', ''complex picture'', ''previously thought''.

It's like I'm reading Nostradamus.

My thoughts as well, pure junk science suppositions, but then read the following sentence.  The new report is actually challenging the apparent consensus of a number of "recent studies."  The author of the new study will be out of a job soon, no doubt.

If you want serious critiques of the alarmist claims that climate scientists and the media are serving up based upon historical records and basic analyses of the actual data and how it's been changed over time, check out https://www.realclimatescience.com/; it is a treasure trove of hard data and history that shine a new and very glaring light on all the advocacy and shenanigans of govt climate "science".

Thanks for posting that Wonderer.

The author is walking on thin ice, it won't be long before he will be called a climate change denialist. That link is great and Tony Heller presents a good case with evidence.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #147 on: August 15, 2019, 03:30:25 pm »
Heller is excellent.  His videos on YouTube are excellent too. 

It's just too bad that's he's a Jew.

KIDDING!!!

Just another great Jew that we can admire.  Let Heller's work go viral and then watch the Left turn on "the Jew" with great resolve. LOL!  He's testified in the U.S. Senate and in Australia and I think some in Europe too. 

I hope to meet up with him some day.





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kurros

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #148 on: August 15, 2019, 03:31:16 pm »
I'm confident that I'm not wrong on this, but if we are to go along with your contention, would you please explain how does an acceleration in the rate of sea level rise avoid detection by the tide gauges?

Like this one for example...


The relative sea level trend is 0.72 millimeters/year with a 95% confidence

interval of +/- 0.09 mm/yr based on monthly mean sea level data from

1862 to 2011 which is equivalent to a change of 0.24 feet in 100 years.
Data for 1862-1931 are monthly mean tide level & a datum offset correction
of 0.014 m was applied based on the systematic difference in datum between
the stations during the period of overlap. Station relocated in February 1973.
Aberdeen, Scottland, UK

Because it is a small effect and you need to look at the combined data from all the gauges, properly averaged, to see it. There is too much variance in individual gauge readings. This is pretty basic.

Quote
I'm not claiming to disprove climate change my dear fellow science professional.  I'm claiming to expose the fallacy of anthropogenic climate crisis.

Well your contention about the accelerating sea level rise doesn't do that either, for the same reason I just gave you.

Quote
Climate changes, always has, always will.  Nobody is denying that.

There is zero hard evidence proving an impending climate crisis, none, zero, nada.

There is a lot of evidence, it just seems that you can't understand it.

Quote
The history of sea level is revealing.  Humans are apparently incredibly adaptable.  Go figure.


This figure is irrelevant, I don't know why you are posting it.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 03:40:13 pm by kurros »

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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #149 on: August 15, 2019, 03:33:42 pm »
Heller is excellent.  His videos on YouTube are excellent too. 

It's just too bad that's he's a Jew.

KIDDING!!!

Just another great Jew that we can admire.  Let Heller's work go viral and then watch the Left turn on "the Jew" with great resolve. LOL!  He's testified in the U.S. Senate and in Australia and I think some in Europe too. 

I hope to meet up with him some day.

Made me laugh. Isn't climate change denial anti-Semitic, though?
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1