Language-Gamer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2019, 04:25:55 pm »
What makes one an “Actual credible scientists“? Could you name about 25 actual credible climate scientists?
I told her all about how we been livin' a lie
And that they love to see us all go to prison or die
Like, "Baby, look at how they show us on the TV screen"
But all she ever want me to do is unzip her jeans

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2019, 04:32:25 pm »
So where are the modelling results of these "actual scientists" and what forcing functions are they presupposing?

Science is about observation and experiment, not models.  Models are often garbage.  Don't idolize models.  Models can be tools to help understand complex systems and complex phenomenon.  Once proved reliable, they may be used for simulation witching strict bounds.

Example, even a simple structural model of a bridge doesn't stand the test of time.  The structural boundary conditions change, mass accumulates on the road surface.  Materials deteriorate.  Estimates of environmental factors prove inadequate.  It's one reason why structural engineers impose factors of safety as great as 200% on their designs.  That kind of over design costs a LOT of money.  But even in such a well understood and limited field, scientists  admit their ignorance and susceptibility to error, the possibilities of finite human effects.

Is there anything more complex and virtually chaotic in science as global climate?  So many phenomenon, so many interactions, forcings, feedbacks, and complex systems.  But Joe the modeler has it all figured out, cause it only diverges from reality by 30%, and it utterly failed to reproduce anything on a scale relative to major global climate change such as seen in the past 10,000 years. 

Well, there is one model that has results better than the others being used by the IPCC, by better I mean that it actually tends to actually nearly correspond to actual scientific observations. 

Scientists look at hard data.  No models needed. 

If there is no actual hard evidence supporting climate alarmism, meaning no evidence that the 33% and rising increase of CO2's 0.0003 to 0.0004 volumetric portion of the atmosphere poses any crisis to humanity, then the need for an accurate computer simulation would seem not so urgent. 

I'm NOT an ideologue on the issue of climate change or climate crisis.  I look at ALL the major scientific literature.

I'm a longtime post-grad science professional well-versed in complex computer simulation and data analyses where mission success, human safety, and lives depend upon sound conclusions, and I'm trained and conversant in all major fields involving climate science, Physics, Chemistry, Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, Advanced Fluid Mechanics, Geology, Calculus & Differential Equations, Experimental Methods, and Probabilities and Statistical Analysis. 


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lapwing

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2019, 05:12:50 pm »
TheCross,

Don't bother providing your source on information will you? And what has this got to do with the MMR vaccine and consequent increase in measles cases? It was crazy to accept the false research on MMR at face value and many people are now paying for it including many unnecessary deaths.

From your article ”Vaccine fears, for example, have persisted despite decades of research showing them to be unfounded.”

It’s a broad sweep, I do not see anything specific even if the article mentions specific deseases later on.
I also stated whom the effected were, my relative and another friend, would you like a ph.D article on that or what?
WHO has everything you wish to find out about vaccines and other stuff related to global health issues of all kinds.

So did  this all happen in secret with no media coverage? 2804 people affected suggests not. You seem reluctant to provide background information (not specific to your relatives)
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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lapwing

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2019, 05:18:34 pm »
Also notice that the previous handbook treats abstinence as a ''back up''. Meaning that they prefer contraception and abortion above abstinence. Further relevant:

The Connection between Contraception and Abortion
http://www.goodmorals.org/smith4.htm

I'm still waiting for you to tell us where the Lund report talks about "killing babies" or abortion. The Lund report was the source of this story Did you even bother to read it?
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #94 on: August 12, 2019, 05:23:37 pm »
How about some hard data?  Climate data I mean.  Hahah!  The diverted discussions are interesting too, but maybe move them to a new topic. 

I had a friend and family member almost die, intensive care for a week nearly dead, massive rehab required afterwards, all from a flu vaccine.  That was about ten years ago.

Some vaccines proved good doesn't mean all vaccines are safe.

Yeah, so maybe start a new topic.  That goes too for those most interested in alleging psychological problems for skeptics of man-made climate crisis.  As if Richard Lindzen, Judith Currie, and so many other top scientists and analysts are psychologically impaired.  LOL!

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lapwing

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #95 on: August 12, 2019, 05:29:03 pm »
I have had just about enough of your accusation of me being a liar.

And how many times have I accused you of being a liar?
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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lapwing

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #96 on: August 12, 2019, 05:29:59 pm »
In a previous thread (Stewardship of the Earth?) Wretch made a lot about the increase in Antarctic sea ice.

Well it's crashed since 2014 but I don't recall Wretch commenting on this.

Quote
'Precipitous' fall in Antarctic sea ice since 2014 revealed
Plunge is far faster than in Arctic and may lead to more global heating, say scientists

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/01/precipitous-fall-in-antarctic-sea-ice-revealed

I don't recall but methinks you exaggerate.  In responding to data-based assertions, I typically simply show actual data that tends to refute said assertions.  Please do show the data, all of it, not just that which supports one view or the other.  I'm open to all the data.  I'm pretty much wary of rhetorical and personal argumentation, which seems impossible to avoid for some folks. 

Just show the hard data and deal in logical well-reasoned analyses.  Anything else is foolishness.  Yeah?

The Guardian article included a link to this report: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/29/14414 Seems like you missed that.

Hmm. the way you big up your "all data" approach. Would that survive proper scrutiny of your posts?

Quoting from a New Yorker article that Mammal found:
Quote
Science’s defenders have identified five hallmark moves of pseudoscientists. They argue that the scientific consensus emerges from a conspiracy to suppress dissenting views. They produce fake experts, who have views contrary to established knowledge but do not actually have a credible scientific track record. They cherry-pick the data and papers that challenge the dominant view as a means of discrediting an entire field. They deploy false analogies and other logical fallacies. And they set impossible expectations of research: when scientists produce one level of certainty, the pseudoscientists insist they achieve another.
I wonder how much of this applies to you.

And remember the main point is that you referred to the rise in Antarctic sea ice prior to 2014 as evidence against global warming but made no comment about the recent decreases. Or are you only interested in data that confirms your biases?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 pm by lapwing »
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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lapwing

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2019, 05:32:13 pm »
How about some hard data?  Climate data I mean.  Hahah!  The diverted discussions are interesting too, but maybe move them to a new topic. 

I had a friend and family member almost die, intensive care for a week nearly dead, massive rehab required afterwards, all from a flu vaccine.  That was about ten years ago.

Some vaccines proved good doesn't mean all vaccines are safe.

Yeah, so maybe start a new topic.  That goes too for those most interested in alleging psychological problems for skeptics of man-made climate crisis.  As if Richard Lindzen, Judith Currie, and so many other top scientists and analysts are psychologically impaired.  LOL!

So the fact that diseases like polio were virtually eradicated by use of vaccines counts for nothing now?
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2019, 05:47:40 pm »
I have had just about enough of your accusation of me being a liar.

And how many times have I accused you of being a liar?

One too many.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2019, 05:59:29 pm »
Also notice that the previous handbook treats abstinence as a ''back up''. Meaning that they prefer contraception and abortion above abstinence. Further relevant:

The Connection between Contraception and Abortion
http://www.goodmorals.org/smith4.htm

I'm still waiting for you to tell us where the Lund report talks about "killing babies" or abortion. The Lund report was the source of this story Did you even bother to read it?

I am still waiting for you to tell us how western countries are supposed to have fewer children if not by the use of contraceptives and abortion. Keep in mind that abstinence is considered as a ''back up'', so we can be reasonably certain that abstinence only is not what the euphemism of ''family planning'' amounts to.

I am also waiting for you to tell us how having fewer children can be reconciled with replacement migration. These two policies, having fewer children and replacement migration, are in conflict with each other. One is purported to reduce the population, the other is purported to increase the population. Perhaps climate change crisis is similar to Schrodinger's cat, it is dead and alive as long as we don't look into it? I have looked into it, and it is as dead as dead can be. No significant rise of sea levels or melting of ice caps, yet we are told that it is coming to a city near you.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2019, 06:05:29 pm »
How about some hard data?  Climate data I mean.  Hahah!  The diverted discussions are interesting too, but maybe move them to a new topic. 

I had a friend and family member almost die, intensive care for a week nearly dead, massive rehab required afterwards, all from a flu vaccine.  That was about ten years ago.

Some vaccines proved good doesn't mean all vaccines are safe.

Yeah, so maybe start a new topic.  That goes too for those most interested in alleging psychological problems for skeptics of man-made climate crisis.  As if Richard Lindzen, Judith Currie, and so many other top scientists and analysts are psychologically impaired.  LOL!

So the fact that diseases like polio were virtually eradicated by use of vaccines counts for nothing now?

Correlation is not causation. From what I understand polio and many other diseases were already in decline due to indoor plumbing and sanitation and not necessarily due to vaccines.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #101 on: August 12, 2019, 06:19:28 pm »
I never thought that I would ever say this, but NASA has some common sense for once:

Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth

Thank God for Carbon Dioxide.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2019, 07:44:29 pm »
In a previous thread (Stewardship of the Earth?) Wretch made a lot about the increase in Antarctic sea ice.

Well it's crashed since 2014 but I don't recall Wretch commenting on this.

Quote
'Precipitous' fall in Antarctic sea ice since 2014 revealed
Plunge is far faster than in Arctic and may lead to more global heating, say scientists

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/01/precipitous-fall-in-antarctic-sea-ice-revealed

I don't recall but methinks you exaggerate.  In responding to data-based assertions, I typically simply show actual data that tends to refute said assertions.  Please do show the data, all of it, not just that which supports one view or the other.  I'm open to all the data.  I'm pretty much wary of rhetorical and personal argumentation, which seems impossible to avoid for some folks. 

Just show the hard data and deal in logical well-reasoned analyses.  Anything else is foolishness.  Yeah?

The Guardian article included a link to this report: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/29/14414 Seems like you missed that.

Hmm. the way you big up your "all data" approach. Would that survive proper scrutiny of your posts?

Quoting from a New Yorker article that Mammal found:
Quote
Science’s defenders have identified five hallmark moves of pseudoscientists. They argue that the scientific consensus emerges from a conspiracy to suppress dissenting views. They produce fake experts, who have views contrary to established knowledge but do not actually have a credible scientific track record. They cherry-pick the data and papers that challenge the dominant view as a means of discrediting an entire field. They deploy false analogies and other logical fallacies. And they set impossible expectations of research: when scientists produce one level of certainty, the pseudoscientists insist they achieve another.
I wonder how much of this applies to you.

And remember the main point is that you referred to the rise in Antarctic sea ice prior to 2014 as evidence against global warming but made no comment about the recent decreases. Or are you only interested in data that confirms your biases?

Thanks for posting the PNAS link to the data.  I've seen it.  It's of what significance?  Forty years of observations with no trend, just a rise and fall of sea ice.  You do know that the use that affects sea level is that on land, yes?  Sea ice has little direct effect on sea level.   So long as ice accumulates on land at a rate offsetting glacial calving into the ocean and Summer glacial meltwater. 

The article has little to nothing to say relative to any climate crisis theory. 

Why do you make such a kerfuffle over it? 

And still you go personal.  Did your father not teach you to be polite?  Please avoid antagonistic personal commentary.  It only reveals the character of its author.

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #103 on: August 12, 2019, 07:51:49 pm »
How about some hard data?  Climate data I mean.  Hahah!  The diverted discussions are interesting too, but maybe move them to a new topic. 

I had a friend and family member almost die, intensive care for a week nearly dead, massive rehab required afterwards, all from a flu vaccine.  That was about ten years ago.

Some vaccines proved good doesn't mean all vaccines are safe.

Yeah, so maybe start a new topic.  That goes too for those most interested in alleging psychological problems for skeptics of man-made climate crisis.  As if Richard Lindzen, Judith Currie, and so many other top scientists and analysts are psychologically impaired.  LOL!

So the fact that diseases like polio were virtually eradicated by use of vaccines counts for nothing now?

Amazing.  Did you miss the gentle hint to get back on topic here?

I'll happily address you wildly exaggerated straw man in a topic for the vaccination issue.


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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #104 on: August 12, 2019, 07:53:46 pm »
Where's the evidence of climate crisis?

Anybody?