kurros

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #120 on: August 13, 2019, 02:02:15 pm »
Sorry, you are just talking nonsense and I have neither the time not inclination to bother trying to correct you any further.

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wonderer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #121 on: August 13, 2019, 02:24:09 pm »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics. Including the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."
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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #122 on: August 13, 2019, 02:44:17 pm »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics. Including the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."

''suggested'', ''could be'', ''complex picture'', ''previously thought''.

It's like I'm reading Nostradamus.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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wonderer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #123 on: August 13, 2019, 03:56:52 pm »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics. Including the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."

''suggested'', ''could be'', ''complex picture'', ''previously thought''.

It's like I'm reading Nostradamus.

That's ok.  I wasn't expecting you to have any intelligent thoughts about it.  It was more for the benefit of Kurros and Wretch.
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Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

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Trinity

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #124 on: August 13, 2019, 04:01:56 pm »
Wonderer,

I saved Kurros and Wretch the trouble of reading from Nostradamus' predictions.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Psalm 19:1

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bdsimon

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #125 on: August 14, 2019, 10:05:56 am »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics. Including the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."

''suggested'', ''could be'', ''complex picture'', ''previously thought''.

It's like I'm reading Nostradamus.

That's ok.  I wasn't expecting you to have any intelligent thoughts about it.  It was more for the benefit of Kurros and Wretch.
I'm telling you, you should really read Earth.
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

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wonderer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #126 on: August 14, 2019, 10:24:33 am »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics. Including the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."

''suggested'', ''could be'', ''complex picture'', ''previously thought''.

It's like I'm reading Nostradamus.

That's ok.  I wasn't expecting you to have any intelligent thoughts about it.  It was more for the benefit of Kurros and Wretch.
I'm telling you, you should really read Earth.

At least I can tell you it is now on my Kindle along with Atonement.  I might need to setup a folder, for bds recommendations I haven't gotten around to reading yet.

I did read all the short stories I hadn't read previously though.
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Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #127 on: August 14, 2019, 10:43:46 am »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics, (including that) the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."

''suggested'', ''could be'', ''complex picture'', ''previously thought''.

It's like I'm reading Nostradamus.

My thoughts as well, pure junk science suppositions, but then read the following sentence.  The new report is actually challenging the apparent consensus of a number of "recent studies."  The author of the new study will be out of a job soon, no doubt.

If you want serious critiques of the alarmist claims that climate scientists and the media are serving up based upon historical records and basic analyses of the actual data and how it's been changed over time, check out https://www.realclimatescience.com/; it is a treasure trove of hard data and history that shine a new and very glaring light on all the advocacy and shenanigans of govt climate "science".

Thanks for posting that Wonderer.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 10:46:58 am by Wretch »

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bdsimon

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #128 on: August 14, 2019, 10:53:28 am »


I did read all the short stories I hadn't read previously though.
Any favorites? I enjoyed the whole list to be honest.
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #129 on: August 14, 2019, 11:18:05 am »
Sorry, you are just talking nonsense and I have neither the time not inclination to bother trying to correct you any further.

Nonsense?  Amazing.  So hard data is "nonsense"?  Hahahah.  Dont believe your eyes, only believe what govt "scientists" tell you to believe?  The difference in perspective is amazing. 

If tide gauges consistently show no acceleration in sea level over the past 100+ years, then how can sea level rise be accelerating? 

Why is the linear hard data wrong, and govt climate scientists who change that data to make it non-linear to match their story right?

Hard data from tide gauges, the very instruments used to measure relative sea level at coastal cities and major ports show consistently that sea level rise at our coasts and at Pacific islands is not accelerating, that it's following a solid linear trend for well over the past 100 years, but govt "scientists" manipulate the data to show that it is.  But you think that the hard data and it's clear linear trend is "nonsense"?  Amazing. 

Or by "nonsense" are you referring to the increase in coastal dry land over the past three decades that I mentioned?

Here's the peer-reviewed scientific reports on that along with excerpts (boldface by me):

Paper: “Earth’s Surface Water Change Over the Past 30 Years.” By Gennadii Donchyts and others. Nature, September 2016. Pages 810–813. <www.nature.com>

Page 810: “Earth’s surface gained 115,000 km2 of water and 173,000 km2 of land over the past 30 years, including 20,135 km2 of water and 33,700 km2 of land in coastal areas. Here, we analyse the gains and losses through the Deltares Aqua Monitor—an open tool that detects land and water changes around the globe.”

Page 811: ”We see that globally, between 1985 and 2015, an area of about 173,000 km2—about the size of Washington State—has been converted to land, and an area of 115,000 km2 has been converted into water.”

To summarize: Relative to coastal areas for the three decades from 1985 to 2015...

About 8,000 square miles (20,000 square km) of Earth’s coastal dry land area became covered by water.
About 13,000 square miles (34,000 square km) of Earth’s coastal water area became dry land area.
So in total from 1985 to 2015 the Earth gained about 5,000 square miles (14,000 square Km) of  coastal dry land.



And another with similar findings, but concerning small reef islands specifically::


* The authors of a 2010 paper in the journal Global and Planetary Change used aerial and satellite photographs to conduct “the first quantitative analysis of physical changes” in 27 central Pacific coral reef islands (including those in Tuvalu) over a 19- to 61-year period. They found that:

86% of these islands remained stable or increased in dry land area
43% oremaining stable,, and 43% increasing in area with changes ranging from 3% to 30%,
15% decreased in area with changes ranging from 3% to 14%,
the combined area of all the islands in total increased by 7%, and
the “results of this study contradict widespread perceptions that all reef islands are eroding in response to recent sea level rise.”

Paper: “The Dynamic Response of Reef Islands to Sea Level Rise: Evidence from Multi-Decadal Analysis of Island Change in the Central Pacific.” By Arthur P. Webb and Paul S. Kench. Global and Planetary Change, May 21, 2010. <www.sciencedirect.com>
Page 1: “Using historical aerial photography and satellite images this study presents the first quantitative analysis of physical changes in 27 atoll islands in the central Pacific over a 19 to 61 yr period. This period of analysis corresponds with instrumental records that show a rate of sea-level rise of 2.0 mm yr−1 in the Pacific….”

Note: A rate of sea level rise of 2.0mm per year, or 0.20 m per century which equates to 7.9 inches or just 0.66 feet per century. 

Page 8:
The total change in area of reef islands (aggregated for all islands in the study) is an increase in land area of 63 ha [hectares, 1 hectare = 2.47 acres] representing 7% of the total land area of all islands studied. … Forty-three percent of islands have remained relatively stable (<±3% change) over the period of analysis. A further 43% of islands (12 in total) have increased in area by more than 3%. The remaining 15% of islands underwent net reduction in island area of more than 3%.

Of the islands that show a net increase in island area six have increased by more than 10% of their original planform area. … The remaining three islands are in Tarawa atoll with Betio, Bairiki and Nanikai increasing by 30%, 16.3% and 12.5% respectively over the 60 yr period of analysis (Table 2). Of note, the large percentage change on Betio represents an increase of more than 36 ha.
Only one island has shown a net reduction in island area greater than 10%. Tengasu is located on the southwest atoll rim of Funafuti and decreased in area by 14% over the 19 yr period of analysis. However, closer examination of the Tengasu data shows that it was the smallest island in the study sample (0.68 ha) and the absolute change in island area was 0.1 ha, which represents a substantial proportion of the total island area.

Page 12:
“Of significance, the results of this study on atoll islands are applicable to islands in other reef settings, as the boundary controls on island formation and change are comparable. Results of this study contradict widespread perceptions that all reef islands are eroding in response to recent sea level rise.”

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Language-Gamer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #130 on: August 14, 2019, 11:22:19 am »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics. Including the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."

''suggested'', ''could be'', ''complex picture'', ''previously thought''.

It's like I'm reading Nostradamus.

That's ok.  I wasn't expecting you to have any intelligent thoughts about it.  It was more for the benefit of Kurros and Wretch.
I'm telling you, you should really read Earth.

At least I can tell you it is now on my Kindle along with Atonement.  I might need to setup a folder, for bds recommendations I haven't gotten around to reading yet.

I did read all the short stories I hadn't read previously though.

Be gentle, but did you read Good Old Neon? Thoughts?
I told her all about how we been livin' a lie

And that they love to see us all go to prison or die

Like, "Baby, look at how they show us on the TV screen"

But all she ever want me to do is unzip her jeans

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wonderer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #131 on: August 14, 2019, 11:33:55 am »
Relevant recent science:

"Recent studies have suggested that the impact of Antarctic meltwater discharge on the ocean could lead to further acceleration of ice sheet melting and global sea level rise. The present study paints a more complex picture of the underlying dynamics, (including that) the cooling effect of icebergs largely compensates for the processes that were previously thought to accelerate Antarctic melting."

''suggested'', ''could be'', ''complex picture'', ''previously thought''.

It's like I'm reading Nostradamus.

My thoughts as well, pure junk science suppositions, but then read the following sentence.  The new report is actually challenging the apparent consensus of a number of "recent studies."  The author of the new study will be out of a job soon, no doubt.

Do you see how your bias is showing?  You were ready to tune it out like Trinity, until you (unlike Trinity) realized it supports your claim that modelling to date is flawed.

I agree that if current models don't take into account the energy required to melt ice, that is a big problem. (Since it takes over 300 calories to take a gram of ice at -.5C to  a gram of water at +.5C but only 1 calorie to take a gram of water from .5C to 1.5C)

On the other hand, it also provides an explanation for why all the graphs you posted earlier don't show a substantial acceleration in sea level rise as predicted by models.  However, failure of models to date in that specific regard does not equate to a failure in all regards.

Sea levels are still going up at a substantial rate, and I don't see that this provides any basis for doubting the general prediction of higher surface temperatures.  In fact the existing models may be underestimating the rise in surface temperatures in the northern hemisphere, due to overly simplistic modelling of how the oceans absorb heat..

A major goal of climate science should be continually improving models, right?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 11:52:39 am by wonderer »
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Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

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bdsimon

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #132 on: August 14, 2019, 11:34:41 am »

Be gentle, but did you read Good Old Neon? Thoughts?
Not directed at me, but I enjoyed it.
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

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Language-Gamer

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #133 on: August 14, 2019, 11:48:15 am »

Be gentle, but did you read Good Old Neon? Thoughts?
Not directed at me, but I enjoyed it.

:) now you gotta read Infinite Jest.
I told her all about how we been livin' a lie

And that they love to see us all go to prison or die

Like, "Baby, look at how they show us on the TV screen"

But all she ever want me to do is unzip her jeans

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Wretch

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Re: There Is No Climate Crisis, & Proposed Solutions Are Harmful
« Reply #134 on: August 14, 2019, 12:28:35 pm »
What makes one an “Actual credible scientists“? Could you name about 25 actual credible climate scientists?

Twenty-five?  I can't name 25 of most anything!  LOL!

Question: If I do the research and name 25 credible climate scientists who don't support climate alarmism, will that affect your view of the issue? 

Let's first see if we can agree on what credible scientists and data analysts do and don't do.

1) Credible scientists & analysts admit mistakes and don't lie or try to cover up mistakes.

2) Credible scientists & analysts risk career and personal status if their findings tend to question the current "scientific" orthodoxy.  You know, like Galileo did. 

3) Credible scientists & analysts perform rigorous analysis of scientific data or model results to show how well it corresponds to reality, the actual hard data.

4) Credible scientists & analysts present all their research, data, and methods for confirmation of their conclusions/findings by other scientists and analysts.

5) Credible scientists & analysts don't change the hard data so that it better matches their desired narrative, let alone do so repeatedly.

6) Credible scientists & analysts don't use fake data, only data from actual observations/measurements.

7) Credible scientists & analysts don't use unreliable data from highly compromised sources.

8) Credible scientists report the most honest accurate statistical uncertainties possible relative to their findings.

9) Credible scientists & analysts report the failure of their theory/model when its results diverge from observations, falling outside the 5-95% statistical confidence bands, and question their underlying assumptions that led to their failed theory/model. 

10) Credible scientists & analysts don't cherry-pick or amplify data which supports their desired narrative.

11) Credible climate scientists & analysts consider their own near infinite ignorance, that there is much about climate that they don't know, and that they are unaware of much of which they don't know.

12) Credible scientists & analysts don't cherry-pick time intervals ignoring other historic records that tend to refute their desired narrative.

13) Credible scientists & analysts don't have a desired narrative.

14) Credible scientists & analysts are skeptical.

15) Credible scientists & analysts don't present deceptive graphical depictions of data.

16) Credible scientists & analysts don't appeal to consensus or authority (what you're tending towards here) or ad hominem or personal smear.

17) Credible scientists & analysts don't avoid intellectual debate with those skeptical of their conclusions.

18) Credible scientists & analysts don't try to block publication of research that challenges their conclusions/findings.

Agreed?  Add or revise as you see fit.

Cheers brother.