Keith_

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This post is about logically inconsistent and contradictory views.
1) We cannot tolerate intolerance.
2) There is no truth!
3) Free speech is important, but only when I think so.
4) Religious tolerance & diversity is good except for Christians.
5) I'm open-minded but conservatives aren't.
6) It is patriotic to burning the flag or take a knee for the national anthem.
7) Antifa calling people Nazis and Fascists using violent Fascist tactics.
8) Every American has the right to vote, even if they're not Americans.
9) Calling for gun control when using armed bodyguards.
10) Condemning walls when your home is surrounded by them
11) Multimillionaires saying rich people are greedy.
12) Manbearpig's carbon footprint.
13) Buying waterfront property while predicting a global warming crisis w/in 10 years.
14) Being a prostitute or porn star is empowering.
16) It isn't discrimination for men to compete in Ts  in women sports.
17) It isn't discrimination to force women to accept penises in bathrooms/locker rooms/shelters
18) It is liberating to require woman to cover themselves in public.
19) Elevator gate.
20) Lesbians are bigots if they won't sleeping with un-transitioned Ts
21) Abortion is between a woman and her Dr. but T's can only legally be counseled to make the transition.

Don't blame me because my Google searches for conservative contradictory views didn't find any lists.
-Keith
.
Eccl.1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

1

wonderer

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2019, 02:15:30 am »
Here is a common conservative inconsistency for you:

Claims to believe, "we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him", yet constantly exhibits paranoia about the way things are working.
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Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

2

Keith_

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 09:16:02 am »
Here is a common conservative inconsistency for you:

Claims to believe, "we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him", yet constantly exhibits paranoia about the way things are working.
Well yes, Christians want to trust God/not worry, but we do anyway. That a human failing rather than a contradiction, in beliefs, but fair enough. 
-Keith
Eccl.1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

3

Tom Paine

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 09:57:30 am »
This post is about logically inconsistent and contradictory views.
1) We cannot tolerate intolerance.
2) There is no truth!
3) Free speech is important, but only when I think so.
4) Religious tolerance & diversity is good except for Christians.
5) I'm open-minded but conservatives aren't.
6) It is patriotic to burning the flag or take a knee for the national anthem.
7) Antifa calling people Nazis and Fascists using violent Fascist tactics.
8) Every American has the right to vote, even if they're not Americans.
9) Calling for gun control when using armed bodyguards.
10) Condemning walls when your home is surrounded by them
11) Multimillionaires saying rich people are greedy.
12) Manbearpig's carbon footprint.
13) Buying waterfront property while predicting a global warming crisis w/in 10 years.
14) Being a prostitute or porn star is empowering.
16) It isn't discrimination for men to compete in Ts  in women sports.
17) It isn't discrimination to force women to accept penises in bathrooms/locker rooms/shelters
18) It is liberating to require woman to cover themselves in public.
19) Elevator gate.
20) Lesbians are bigots if they won't sleeping with un-transitioned Ts
21) Abortion is between a woman and her Dr. but T's can only legally be counseled to make the transition.

Don't blame me because my Google searches for conservative contradictory views didn't find any lists.
-Keith
.

Here's one

1. Make long list of extremist views and labels them as "liberal"

Dude, the reason why there are no lists of conservative contradictory views is because most liberals are pretty reasonable people and don't make ridiculous lists of far-right views and label them as "conservative."

Oh, well, apparently there are liberals silly enough to do this. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just figure you're not that good at doing google searches.

https://www.google.com/search?q=conservative+contradictions&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS807US807&oq=conservative+contradiction&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57.6567j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 11:05:26 am by Tom Paine »

4

Paterfamilia

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2019, 11:53:18 am »
This post is about logically inconsistent and contradictory views.
1) We cannot tolerate intolerance.
2) There is no truth!
3) Free speech is important, but only when I think so.
4) Religious tolerance & diversity is good except for Christians.
5) I'm open-minded but conservatives aren't.
6) It is patriotic to burning the flag or take a knee for the national anthem.
7) Antifa calling people Nazis and Fascists using violent Fascist tactics.
8) Every American has the right to vote, even if they're not Americans.
9) Calling for gun control when using armed bodyguards.
10) Condemning walls when your home is surrounded by them
11) Multimillionaires saying rich people are greedy.
12) Manbearpig's carbon footprint.
13) Buying waterfront property while predicting a global warming crisis w/in 10 years.
14) Being a prostitute or porn star is empowering.
16) It isn't discrimination for men to compete in Ts  in women sports.
17) It isn't discrimination to force women to accept penises in bathrooms/locker rooms/shelters
18) It is liberating to require woman to cover themselves in public.
19) Elevator gate.
20) Lesbians are bigots if they won't sleeping with un-transitioned Ts
21) Abortion is between a woman and her Dr. but T's can only legally be counseled to make the transition.

Don't blame me because my Google searches for conservative contradictory views didn't find any lists.
-Keith
.

Here's one

1. Make long list of extremist views and labels them as "liberal"

Dude, the reason why there are no lists of conservative contradictory views is because most liberals are pretty reasonable people and don't make ridiculous lists of far-right views and label them as "conservative."

Oh, well, apparently there are liberals silly enough to do this. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just figure you're not that good at doing google searches.

https://www.google.com/search?q=conservative+contradictions&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS807US807&oq=conservative+contradiction&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57.6567j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


You were right, the lists are ridiculous.  You knew they would be a series of lying non-sequitors?

Don’t click the third one - virus scam.

"First I knocked them out of a tree with a rock.  Then I saved them."

5

Keith_

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2019, 06:40:07 pm »

I didn't say 'liberal', Tom, you did.
Here's a list from the second site in your search, Tom.

1) Wanting no background checks for guns, while wanting drug tests for welfare applicants.
2) Verbatum "NOT OK: Using taxpayer dollars to fund art in schools. OK: Using taxpayer dollars to send kids to schools that "teach controversies" -- like creationism and the “respectability” of the Ku Klux Klan."
3) Opposing a 5 day waiting period for guns, wanting a 3-day waiting period for abortions.
4) Opposing government compulsive health insurance, but opposing gun control., but Requiring (at least in principle) every household in town to own a gun.
5) Opposing requirements that force employer to provide insurance coverage against their moral principles," while requiring abortion services to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound.
-Keith
6) Opposing allowing "foreign law" (read: Sharia) for legal purposes, while declaring Christianity an official state religion that would exempt the state from the Constitution and court rulings.
7)  Opposing milk or lunches for low-income school children, while supporting tax cuts for Big Oil
8) Opposing cutting defense spending, while wanting to cut everything else.
9) Verbatim "NOT OK: Opposing international child marriage. OK: Opposing gay marriage. (Note: A number of Democrats also opposed the International Protecting Girls by Preventing Child Marriage Act)"

The Huffington post had to resort to making things up to get this list.  I've never met a conservative who:
-  said the KKK is respectable  (Dishonest: nobody supports the KKK, though the KKK was dominated by democrats))
- Christianity should be the official state religion. (Who's saying this???)
- Verbatim "NOT OK: Requiring everyone to purchase health insurance. OK: Requiring (at least in principle) every household in town to own a gun."  (Dishonest: nobody supports the latter)
- Supports international marriage to children (pedophilia). ( (Dishonest: nobody supports the latter)

Identifying a contradiction is  pointless if nobody agrees with one of the two views called contradictory.
-Keith
Eccl.1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

6

wonderer

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 07:33:49 pm »

- Christianity should be the official state religion. (Who's saying this???)

Matt Shea for one.
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7

Tom Paine

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 11:13:44 pm »

I didn't say 'liberal', Tom, you did.

OK, I guess I inferred that from the fact you compared it to a a search for conservative contradictions. But, true, you didn't actually label the contradictions as "liberal".

Here's a list from the second site in your search, Tom.

1) Wanting no background checks for guns, while wanting drug tests for welfare applicants.
2) Verbatum "NOT OK: Using taxpayer dollars to fund art in schools. OK: Using taxpayer dollars to send kids to schools that "teach controversies" -- like creationism and the “respectability” of the Ku Klux Klan."
3) Opposing a 5 day waiting period for guns, wanting a 3-day waiting period for abortions.
4) Opposing government compulsive health insurance, but opposing gun control., but Requiring (at least in principle) every household in town to own a gun.
5) Opposing requirements that force employer to provide insurance coverage against their moral principles," while requiring abortion services to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound.
-Keith
6) Opposing allowing "foreign law" (read: Sharia) for legal purposes, while declaring Christianity an official state religion that would exempt the state from the Constitution and court rulings.
7)  Opposing milk or lunches for low-income school children, while supporting tax cuts for Big Oil
8) Opposing cutting defense spending, while wanting to cut everything else.
9) Verbatim "NOT OK: Opposing international child marriage. OK: Opposing gay marriage. (Note: A number of Democrats also opposed the International Protecting Girls by Preventing Child Marriage Act)"

The Huffington post had to resort to making things up to get this list.  I've never met a conservative who:
-  said the KKK is respectable  (Dishonest: nobody supports the KKK, though the KKK was dominated by democrats))
- Christianity should be the official state religion. (Who's saying this???)
- Verbatim "NOT OK: Requiring everyone to purchase health insurance. OK: Requiring (at least in principle) every household in town to own a gun."  (Dishonest: nobody supports the latter)
- Supports international marriage to children (pedophilia). ( (Dishonest: nobody supports the latter)

Identifying a contradiction is  pointless if nobody agrees with one of the two views called contradictory.
-Keith
[/quote]

Well, yes, there are a some religious right nut jobs who are calling on putting the US under Biblical law. (Note" I didn't mean everyone who is Christian and conservative is a nut job, just the one's calling for Biblical law.  I'm also certain that you can find people who say the KKK is respectable and that most if not all a right-wingers.

Also, I've never met any liberals who would take many of the positions you put on your list. Anyway, I didn't offer the link because I was touting these lists. i was just showing that contrary to what you wrote there are some lists. I called the people who wrote them "silly" and I have to agree the first one you posted is awful. The second one is pretty bad, too.  But so is your list. It's just as ill-conceived and unfair.

8

Paterfamilia

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2019, 11:39:50 pm »

I didn't say 'liberal', Tom, you did.

OK, I guess I inferred that from the fact you compared it to a a search for conservative contradictions. But, true, you didn't actually label the contradictions as "liberal".

Here's a list from the second site in your search, Tom.

1) Wanting no background checks for guns, while wanting drug tests for welfare applicants.
2) Verbatum "NOT OK: Using taxpayer dollars to fund art in schools. OK: Using taxpayer dollars to send kids to schools that "teach controversies" -- like creationism and the “respectability” of the Ku Klux Klan."
3) Opposing a 5 day waiting period for guns, wanting a 3-day waiting period for abortions.
4) Opposing government compulsive health insurance, but opposing gun control., but Requiring (at least in principle) every household in town to own a gun.
5) Opposing requirements that force employer to provide insurance coverage against their moral principles," while requiring abortion services to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound.
-Keith
6) Opposing allowing "foreign law" (read: Sharia) for legal purposes, while declaring Christianity an official state religion that would exempt the state from the Constitution and court rulings.
7)  Opposing milk or lunches for low-income school children, while supporting tax cuts for Big Oil
8) Opposing cutting defense spending, while wanting to cut everything else.
9) Verbatim "NOT OK: Opposing international child marriage. OK: Opposing gay marriage. (Note: A number of Democrats also opposed the International Protecting Girls by Preventing Child Marriage Act)"

The Huffington post had to resort to making things up to get this list.  I've never met a conservative who:
-  said the KKK is respectable  (Dishonest: nobody supports the KKK, though the KKK was dominated by democrats))
- Christianity should be the official state religion. (Who's saying this???)
- Verbatim "NOT OK: Requiring everyone to purchase health insurance. OK: Requiring (at least in principle) every household in town to own a gun."  (Dishonest: nobody supports the latter)
- Supports international marriage to children (pedophilia). ( (Dishonest: nobody supports the latter)

Identifying a contradiction is  pointless if nobody agrees with one of the two views called contradictory.
-Keith

Well, yes, there are a some religious right nut jobs who are calling on putting the US under Biblical law. (Note" I didn't mean everyone who is Christian and conservative is a nut job, just the one's calling for Biblical law.  I'm also certain that you can find people who say the KKK is respectable and that most if not all a right-wingers.

Also, I've never met any liberals who would take many of the positions you put on your list. Anyway, I didn't offer the link because I was touting these lists. i was just showing that contrary to what you wrote there are some lists. I called the people who wrote them "silly" and I have to agree the first one you posted is awful. The second one is pretty bad, too.  But so is your list. It's just as ill-conceived and unfair.
[/quote]


Really?  How so?

"First I knocked them out of a tree with a rock.  Then I saved them."

9

kravarnik

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2019, 05:24:23 am »
If gender is a social construct, then why do transgenders seek to conform to either male, or female - that is, they seek to conform to two particular forms/images of human being.


Now, if gender was a social construct, then it's unclear what conformation to the opposite sex achieves. At the same time it is said sex doesn't determine the role - since they want to claim transgender is not a malfunction, a disorder, a deficiency, - yet they seek to engrave their "gender" in a particular sex. For the admission that sex determines the role, then would have "males" that seek "feminine role" to be a malfunction of nature, a disorder of nature. Just as it was qualified prior to the progressive ideology taking hold on the sciences.



Their own attitude and behavior shows the falsity of the very ideology they seek to enforce. Saying it is "spectrum", yet living under binitarian understanding, is self-defeating. If the gender is liquid, then I don't see how the pee-pee doesn't let you take care of kids primarily, stay in the kitchen, or prevents one from wearing dresses. But the very fact that they find the "opposite sex" more authentic as the avatar of their "gender" - say, it is more appropriate for women(the ones without pee-pee) to wear dresses; to take care of the household work and so on - then shows that you cannot escape the binitarian reality of sex.


Willingly, or not, they are forced to conform to the objective reality, as much as they may subjectively claim otherwise. Inevitably, we all will conform to the objective reality that God has created, for He will judge and we will then have to accept reality as it is. For some it comes sooner, rather than late, and for others it comes later, rather than soon. I just hope for all of us it will come sooner.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 05:36:38 am by kravarnik »
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

10

kurros

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2019, 06:20:23 am »
If gender is a social construct, then why do transgenders seek to conform to either male, or female - that is, they seek to conform to two particular forms/images of human being.


Now, if gender was a social construct, then it's unclear what conformation to the opposite sex achieves. At the same time it is said sex doesn't determine the role - since they want to claim transgender is not a malfunction, a disorder, a deficiency, - yet they seek to engrave their "gender" in a particular sex. For the admission that sex determines the role, then would have "males" that seek "feminine role" to be a malfunction of nature, a disorder of nature. Just as it was qualified prior to the progressive ideology taking hold on the sciences.



Their own attitude and behavior shows the falsity of the very ideology they seek to enforce. Saying it is "spectrum", yet living under binitarian understanding, is self-defeating. If the gender is liquid, then I don't see how the pee-pee doesn't let you take care of kids primarily, stay in the kitchen, or prevents one from wearing dresses. But the very fact that they find the "opposite sex" more authentic as the avatar of their "gender" - say, it is more appropriate for women(the ones without pee-pee) to wear dresses; to take care of the household work and so on - then shows that you cannot escape the binitarian reality of sex.


Willingly, or not, they are forced to conform to the objective reality, as much as they may subjectively claim otherwise. Inevitably, we all will conform to the objective reality that God has created, for He will judge and we will then have to accept reality as it is. For some it comes sooner, rather than late, and for others it comes later, rather than soon. I just hope for all of us it will come sooner.

This is a rather grammatically confused post and not that easy to follow, but I think you are wondering why some transgender people seek to physically alter their bodies if gender is just a social construct? Well I think the answer is pretty simple; it is because society is such that most people will not accept them into their chosen social construct unless they look the part. The social construct is built on thousands of years of pressuring people of certain biological status into those roles. Thus it is easier to be accepted into a gender role if you conform physically to the expectations of it.

11

Paterfamilia

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2019, 07:54:28 am »
You know I’m sitting right now at my weekly home group meeting.  Seven families, about 15 adults.  My wife and two other couples are the white people.  The rest of us are mutts or Mexican or Indian or African.  Nobody here gives one thought or care about color or nationality of origin.  The love of our country unites us and the loving Spirit of God binds us together.  Looking around, there’s no hate toward anybody on this green earth.

Smiles and joy and good food and substantive conversation.  Study, prayer, testimony, and lots of laughing.  Illegal immigration came up - we seem to be unanimous in our sympathy for anyone who wants a better life.  Two of the families are legal immigrants from Mexico and two are legal immigrants from India.  They agree that if the illegals wanted to, they could come legally.

Our host is one of the Indian couples.  He added that we should count our blessings, if it was India on our southern border, there would be a rush north of about a billion people sometime tomorrow.

The conversation is all about how we can be more loving people,and give glory to God who created and loves us.  We learn and encourage and pray.

We would be happy to accept any living breathing human being to be part of our group.  It’s difficult for me to see why anyone would be afraid of us, or hate on us.

People exclude themselves.  That’s my experience.



"First I knocked them out of a tree with a rock.  Then I saved them."

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Jabberwock

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2019, 03:24:55 pm »
You know I’m sitting right now at my weekly home group meeting.  Seven families, about 15 adults.  My wife and two other couples are the white people.  The rest of us are mutts or Mexican or Indian or African.  Nobody here gives one thought or care about color or nationality of origin.  The love of our country unites us and the loving Spirit of God binds us together.  Looking around, there’s no hate toward anybody on this green earth.

You love a social construct and want to belong to it? Do not tell kravarnik...
First learn to spell "ironic discussion"...

13

Paterfamilia

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2019, 03:34:00 pm »
I think there is a far bigger issue that may make a good discussion.  New thread!
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kravarnik

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Re: If gender is a social construct, why do T's want to be a different gender?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 03:51:01 am »
You know I’m sitting right now at my weekly home group meeting.  Seven families, about 15 adults.  My wife and two other couples are the white people.  The rest of us are mutts or Mexican or Indian or African.  Nobody here gives one thought or care about color or nationality of origin.  The love of our country unites us and the loving Spirit of God binds us together.  Looking around, there’s no hate toward anybody on this green earth.

You love a social construct and want to belong to it? Do not tell kravarnik...

The Church is not a social construct, but Divinely sanctioned and ordained institution to glorify God and reveal Himself to the world as He has revealed Himself to the Church.


If you've read some of my comments in the past, I've given the example of the Church as the fundamental uniting force in Europe. In the Church there's no male or female, poor or rich, Jew or Gentile, for we all gather for one goal - to glorify the God and come to know Him in Truth.


This is true diversity. One object, but many subjects. One worshiped, but many worshipers. Unlike the Satan's inversions of God's works - where you want to have many objects(Ls, Bs, Gs, Ts, blacks, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, materialists, new age ecumenists, Marxists, socialists, Darwinists and so on)), but also many subjects; many worshiped, but also many worshiping. Thus why polytheistic idolatry is wrong and cannot attain unity - for one gathers for himself many idols, which you need to worship and pay respect to. In diversity without commonality, then tension and friction arise, so conflict ensues.



That's why the false churches are not recognized as authentic. Much like the false marriages are not recognized authentic. Because these are Divinely ordained institutions and not mere social "constructs". A social construct is two people living together. A Divinely ordained institution is two people becoming one flesh by consummating sexual intercourse; two people becoming one flesh and soul by treating one another as their very own self; two people giving an oath and promise to each other and God that they'll stay faithful.


I don't see how the latter can be a social construct, when it speaks about realities much above society and man - spiritual ones. The social construct is two animals we call "man" coming to live together, and then some time later some members of these animals come to deceivingly adopt the name "marriage" from religion. This is the consistent story from a godless worldview. The consistent story from the Christian view is that God ordained marriage and sanctioned it specifically for man, and there's a clear constitution of it going far above human society and man's being, but coming from God Himself.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 03:59:12 am by kravarnik »
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm