Poll

Is a lack of civility, respectfulness, and decorum at RF in bad need of help?

Yes
6 (66.7%)
No
3 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closes: December 07, 2019, 04:19:39 pm

wonderer

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It could be such a great place, but currently it is not due to some major superiority complexes...

Pretty sure he is talking about you LG.  ;-)

Possibly. Before I read yours I was already responding to him.

Hah!  I requested criticism of my forum behavior yesterday via PM, before Cvanhorn even posted.  Clearly, I am the superior criticism solicitor.
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Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

1

Language-Gamer

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It could be such a great place, but currently it is not due to some major superiority complexes...

Pretty sure he is talking about you LG.  ;-)

Possibly. Before I read yours I was already responding to him.

Hah!  I requested criticism of my forum behavior yesterday via PM, before Cvanhorn even posted.  Clearly, I am the superior criticism solicitor.

I'm not so sure. I think if you were really superior on this you would have asked me specifically for criticism.
I told her all about how we been livin' a lie

And that they love to see us all go to prison or die

Like, "Baby, look at how they show us on the TV screen"

But all she ever want me to do is unzip her jeans

2

Soren

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In all things, authority must be personable, respectful and humble; it must treat others with respect and assume the best, rather than the worst until proven otherwise.  Authority must never be adversarial. 

The best most effective community police are those who treat others excellently; they address everyone by "sir" or "ma'am", and excluding cases involving imminent danger always firstly ask politely, never order. 

If someone posts something that violates the rules, first just politely ask them "would you please edit/revise your post?"  It's so easy, and it fosters so much good will and cooperation.  Rather than increasing the forum moderators' workload, that Christian approach in the long run actually reduces moderator work load.  It inculcates a sense of mutual community and respect as opposed to one of overseer and children.  A little public embarrassment and shame for having disappointed a friend and fellow community member is FAR more effective a deterrent than an adversarial overseer swooping down from on high.  I wish I were more eloquent, so I could be sure to convey the beauty of this principle.

If a Christian forum is not being managed according to Christian first principles, it it is not even providing its members the basic considerations that are routinely afforded even the worst of criminals, then something is gravely wrong.   Banning ought never be about an adversarial approach.  Banning is shunning, telling a person that they are so horrid as to have no value to the forum.  Secretive banning is worse. 

Please.  Be Christian.  None of us are perfect.
So if someone is violating forum rules by, for example, posting about the need for civility despite being banned for being uncivil, and if someone is acting in an anti-Christian fashion by lying about doing this, then we should ask them to stop? OK -- please stop.

3

Cvanhorn

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It could be such a great place, but currently it is not due to some major superiority complexes...

Pretty sure he is talking about you LG.  ;-)

Possibly. Before I read yours I was already responding to him.

Hah!  I requested criticism of my forum behavior yesterday via PM, before Cvanhorn even posted.  Clearly, I am the superior criticism solicitor.

I could not possibly offer pointed criticism as I have not followed close enough to be fair to anyone. I will say that I have spent the last year diving deep into Stoic philosophy because I really needed it. It taught me that there are things in my control and things that are not. I can control my attitudes and responses but I can not control how others receive me or respond to me. Since I can’t control it I should t feel anxious or get angry. Clearly still learning about that but it is great advice for anyone. Focus on improving yourself. Focus on learning how to identify your own flaws and mercilessly trying to improve them. Focus on that and let others go. Either they others are already trying to improve so you can encourage them through, or they can see your example and want to emulate it which is good ... or they will not listen or learn in which case, you should not focus too hard on convincing them.
Courage is contagious.  When a brave man takes a stand, then spines of others are stiffened.

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wonderer

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It could be such a great place, but currently it is not due to some major superiority complexes...

Pretty sure he is talking about you LG.  ;-)

Possibly. Before I read yours I was already responding to him.

Hah!  I requested criticism of my forum behavior yesterday via PM, before Cvanhorn even posted.  Clearly, I am the superior criticism solicitor.

I'm not so sure. I think if you were really superior on this you would have asked me specifically for criticism.

LOL

Touche
-- This user has been suspended and will return on the 3rd of September --

Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

5

kravarnik

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In all things, authority must be personable, respectful and humble; it must treat others with respect and assume the best, rather than the worst until proven otherwise.  Authority must never be adversarial. 

The best most effective community police are those who treat others excellently; they address everyone by "sir" or "ma'am", and excluding cases involving imminent danger always firstly ask politely, never order. 

If someone posts something that violates the rules, first just politely ask them "would you please edit/revise your post?"  It's so easy, and it fosters so much good will and cooperation.  Rather than increasing the forum moderators' workload, that Christian approach in the long run actually reduces moderator work load.  It inculcates a sense of mutual community and respect as opposed to one of overseer and children.  A little public embarrassment and shame for having disappointed a friend and fellow community member is FAR more effective a deterrent than an adversarial overseer swooping down from on high.  I wish I were more eloquent, so I could be sure to convey the beauty of this principle.

If a Christian forum is not being managed according to Christian first principles, it it is not even providing its members the basic considerations that are routinely afforded even the worst of criminals, then something is gravely wrong.   Banning ought never be about an adversarial approach.  Banning is shunning, telling a person that they are so horrid as to have no value to the forum.  Secretive banning is worse. 

Please.  Be Christian.  None of us are perfect.

This is such a great advice. I understand that the Christian ought to hold his brethren to a higher standard, as God Himself says that those entrusted with more knowledge, will also be judged more harshly. And we understand that we, Christians, are entrusted with Divine Truths.


But I find it especially repugnant and anti-Christian to weaponize those ideals and put down others through them. God says that mercy and forgiveness should preside over the court. Mercy and forgiveness are always first, and then retribution and punishment may follow, if needed.


I see that many of us here fail to apply that. I myself do so on many occasions without realizing. That's why we ought to tread carefully, because we often condemn ourselves in condemning others. And we don't realize that the measure we use, if applied to us, would render us as equally guilty as the one we applied it to in the first place.
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

6

Triple Scooby

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In all things, authority must be personable, respectful and humble; it must treat others with respect and assume the best, rather than the worst until proven otherwise.  Authority must never be adversarial. 

The best most effective community police are those who treat others excellently; they address everyone by "sir" or "ma'am", and excluding cases involving imminent danger always firstly ask politely, never order. 

If someone posts something that violates the rules, first just politely ask them "would you please edit/revise your post?"  It's so easy, and it fosters so much good will and cooperation.  Rather than increasing the forum moderators' workload, that Christian approach in the long run actually reduces moderator work load.  It inculcates a sense of mutual community and respect as opposed to one of overseer and children.  A little public embarrassment and shame for having disappointed a friend and fellow community member is FAR more effective a deterrent than an adversarial overseer swooping down from on high.  I wish I were more eloquent, so I could be sure to convey the beauty of this principle.

If a Christian forum is not being managed according to Christian first principles, if it is not even providing its members the basic considerations that are routinely afforded even the worst of criminals, then something is gravely wrong.   Banning ought never be about an adversarial approach.  Banning is shunning, telling a person that they are so horrid as to have no value to the forum.  Secretive banning is worse. 

Please.  Be Christian.  None of us are perfect.
So if someone is violating forum rules by, for example, posting about the need for civility despite being banned for being uncivil, and if someone is acting in an anti-Christian fashion by lying about doing this, then we should ask them to stop? OK -- please stop.

Where was I banned for being uncivil?

Which of my posts do you even contend is uncivil or violating a rule and needs revising?

Where have I lied about anything? 

You sir are way out of line; you're blatantly violating forum rules by posting defamatory accusations.  Would you please revise your post accordingly?  Then I will follow suit.  Let us be better. 

7

Soren

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In all things, authority must be personable, respectful and humble; it must treat others with respect and assume the best, rather than the worst until proven otherwise.  Authority must never be adversarial. 

The best most effective community police are those who treat others excellently; they address everyone by "sir" or "ma'am", and excluding cases involving imminent danger always firstly ask politely, never order. 

If someone posts something that violates the rules, first just politely ask them "would you please edit/revise your post?"  It's so easy, and it fosters so much good will and cooperation.  Rather than increasing the forum moderators' workload, that Christian approach in the long run actually reduces moderator work load.  It inculcates a sense of mutual community and respect as opposed to one of overseer and children.  A little public embarrassment and shame for having disappointed a friend and fellow community member is FAR more effective a deterrent than an adversarial overseer swooping down from on high.  I wish I were more eloquent, so I could be sure to convey the beauty of this principle.

If a Christian forum is not being managed according to Christian first principles, if it is not even providing its members the basic considerations that are routinely afforded even the worst of criminals, then something is gravely wrong.   Banning ought never be about an adversarial approach.  Banning is shunning, telling a person that they are so horrid as to have no value to the forum.  Secretive banning is worse. 

Please.  Be Christian.  None of us are perfect.
So if someone is violating forum rules by, for example, posting about the need for civility despite being banned for being uncivil, and if someone is acting in an anti-Christian fashion by lying about doing this, then we should ask them to stop? OK -- please stop.

Where was I banned for being uncivil?

Which of my posts do you even contend is uncivil or violating a rule and needs revising?

Where have I lied about anything? 

You sir are way out of line; you're blatantly violating forum rules by posting defamatory accusations.  Would you please revise your post accordingly?  Then I will follow suit.  Let us be better.
If you are Wretch, which you have basically admitted, you are violating forum rules by posting under a different name to circumvent a banning. Under the name Wretch, you have admitted to doing this before. So you are a repeat offender both in violating forum rules and in lying about it -- as such you have no standing to complain about the behavior of others.

In Biblical terms, deal with the log in your own eye before complaining about the speck in the eyes of others. In the vernacular, stop being such a hypocritical jerk.

Edit: You can call me uncivil if you want, but as far as I am concerned, lectures on the importance of following forum rules delivered by someone who repeatedly and blatantly violates those rules are just trolling.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 12:06:22 pm by Soren »

8

Triple Scooby

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In all things, authority must be personable, respectful and humble; it must treat others with respect and assume the best, rather than the worst until proven otherwise.  Authority must never be adversarial. 

The best most effective community police are those who treat others excellently; they address everyone by "sir" or "ma'am", and excluding cases involving imminent danger always firstly ask politely, never order. 

If someone posts something that violates the rules, first just politely ask them "would you please edit/revise your post?"  It's so easy, and it fosters so much good will and cooperation.  Rather than increasing the forum moderators' workload, that Christian approach in the long run actually reduces moderator work load.  It inculcates a sense of mutual community and respect as opposed to one of overseer and children.  A little public embarrassment and shame for having disappointed a friend and fellow community member is FAR more effective a deterrent than an adversarial overseer swooping down from on high.  I wish I were more eloquent, so I could be sure to convey the beauty of this principle.

If a Christian forum is not being managed according to Christian first principles, if it is not even providing its members the basic considerations that are routinely afforded even the worst of criminals, then something is gravely wrong.   Banning ought never be about an adversarial approach.  Banning is shunning, telling a person that they are so horrid as to have no value to the forum.  Secretive banning is worse. 

Please.  Be Christian.  None of us are perfect.
So if someone is violating forum rules by, for example, posting about the need for civility despite being banned for being uncivil, and if someone is acting in an anti-Christian fashion by lying about doing this, then we should ask them to stop? OK -- please stop.

Where was I banned for being uncivil?

Which of my posts do you even contend is uncivil or violating a rule and needs revising?

Where have I lied about anything? 

You sir are way out of line; you're blatantly violating forum rules by posting defamatory accusations.  Would you please revise your post accordingly?  Then I will follow suit.  Let us be better.
If you are Wretch, which you have basically admitted, you are violating forum rules by posting under a different name to circumvent a banning. Under the name Wretch, you have admitted to doing this before. So you are a repeat offender both in violating forum rules and in lying about it -- as such you have no standing to complain about the behavior of others.

In Biblical terms, deal with the log in your own eye before complaining about the speck in the eyes of others. In the vernacular, stop being such a hypocritical jerk.

Edit: You can call me uncivil if you want, but as far as I am concerned, lectures on the importance of following forum rules delivered by someone who repeatedly and blatantly violates those rules are just trolling.

I didn't call you uncivil.  I pointed out that you're blatantly violating forum rules.  You're not only posting seriously defamatory comments, and refusing to back them up with actual evidence.  Where have I "basically admitted that I was Wretch"?  I don't answer to hostile interrogation by people acting in bad faith. 

You've made defamatory accusations, which violate forum rules, and I've politely asked you to please revise your comments accordingly.  I've also asked you to provide evidence of any rules violations by me, and you've failed to do so.  Please revise your defamatory accusations and move on, and I will do likewise.   Let us be better.

Do you have even the least bit of sincere interest in learning about God and the Christian faith?  If so, what can I share with you to help inform you about Christ and His gospel, His saving Grace?  If not, then why are you here? 

9

Soren

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In all things, authority must be personable, respectful and humble; it must treat others with respect and assume the best, rather than the worst until proven otherwise.  Authority must never be adversarial. 

The best most effective community police are those who treat others excellently; they address everyone by "sir" or "ma'am", and excluding cases involving imminent danger always firstly ask politely, never order. 

If someone posts something that violates the rules, first just politely ask them "would you please edit/revise your post?"  It's so easy, and it fosters so much good will and cooperation.  Rather than increasing the forum moderators' workload, that Christian approach in the long run actually reduces moderator work load.  It inculcates a sense of mutual community and respect as opposed to one of overseer and children.  A little public embarrassment and shame for having disappointed a friend and fellow community member is FAR more effective a deterrent than an adversarial overseer swooping down from on high.  I wish I were more eloquent, so I could be sure to convey the beauty of this principle.

If a Christian forum is not being managed according to Christian first principles, if it is not even providing its members the basic considerations that are routinely afforded even the worst of criminals, then something is gravely wrong.   Banning ought never be about an adversarial approach.  Banning is shunning, telling a person that they are so horrid as to have no value to the forum.  Secretive banning is worse. 

Please.  Be Christian.  None of us are perfect.
So if someone is violating forum rules by, for example, posting about the need for civility despite being banned for being uncivil, and if someone is acting in an anti-Christian fashion by lying about doing this, then we should ask them to stop? OK -- please stop.

Where was I banned for being uncivil?

Which of my posts do you even contend is uncivil or violating a rule and needs revising?

Where have I lied about anything? 

You sir are way out of line; you're blatantly violating forum rules by posting defamatory accusations.  Would you please revise your post accordingly?  Then I will follow suit.  Let us be better.
If you are Wretch, which you have basically admitted, you are violating forum rules by posting under a different name to circumvent a banning. Under the name Wretch, you have admitted to doing this before. So you are a repeat offender both in violating forum rules and in lying about it -- as such you have no standing to complain about the behavior of others.

In Biblical terms, deal with the log in your own eye before complaining about the speck in the eyes of others. In the vernacular, stop being such a hypocritical jerk.

Edit: You can call me uncivil if you want, but as far as I am concerned, lectures on the importance of following forum rules delivered by someone who repeatedly and blatantly violates those rules are just trolling.

I didn't call you uncivil.  I pointed out that you're blatantly violating forum rules.  You're not only posting seriously defamatory comments, and refusing to back them up with actual evidence.  Where have I "basically admitted that I was Wretch"?  I don't answer to hostile interrogation by people acting in bad faith. 

You've made defamatory accusations, which violate forum rules, and I've politely asked you to please revise your comments accordingly.  I've also asked you to provide evidence of any rules violations by me, and you've failed to do so.  Please revise your defamatory accusations and move on, and I will do likewise.   Let us be better.

Do you have even the least bit of sincere interest in learning about God and the Christian faith?  If so, what can I share with you to help inform you about Christ and His gospel, His saving Grace?  If not, then why are you here?
OK, here's your chance. Give us a straight answer: Did you previously use the forum name "Wretch" or not?

And yes, I am interested in Christianity, and I have learned a lot from many Christians here, including LG, Harvey, Dr. Craig, and others. But frankly you, Keith, and a few other posters seem to be more disciples of Donald Trump than Jesus Christ -- you seem to know relatively little about Christianity and you spend far more time talking about Trump than Jesus. So in all honestly, I don't expect to learn much from you ... but there is always hope.

10

Language-Gamer

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And yes, I am interested in Christianity, and I have learned a lot from many Christians here, including LG, Harvey, Dr. Craig, and others. But frankly you, Keith, and a few other posters seem to be more disciples of Donald Trump than Jesus Christ -- you seem to know relatively little about Christianity and you spend far more time talking about Trump than Jesus. So in all honestly, I don't expect to learn much from you ... but there is always hope.

Well that's unfortunate. You listed me first and the first will be last. :(
I told her all about how we been livin' a lie

And that they love to see us all go to prison or die

Like, "Baby, look at how they show us on the TV screen"

But all she ever want me to do is unzip her jeans

11

Keith_

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But frankly you, Keith, and a few other posters seem to be more disciples of Donald Trump than Jesus Christ.
Soren, even in my AMA thread, it has been quite some time since I've written about Trump other than responding to someone writing about Trump, usually to vent on Trump or people who like him.  The post I'm writing now is a case in point. Nobody on this thread mentioned Trump until you did. My impression is that you and a few others are unwilling to let the subject go. I suggest limiting Trump discussions to my AMA thread respecting those who don't want to be spammed with politics in every thread.
-Keith
Eccl.1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

12

Language-Gamer

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But frankly you, Keith, and a few other posters seem to be more disciples of Donald Trump than Jesus Christ.
Nobody on this thread mentioned Trump until you did.

This is incorrect. A simple ctrl+f on the various pages will show you that.
I told her all about how we been livin' a lie

And that they love to see us all go to prison or die

Like, "Baby, look at how they show us on the TV screen"

But all she ever want me to do is unzip her jeans

13

Triple Scooby

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Soren:

I understand the impression you and likely others have, but you'll be surprised if you take a look at my posts.  Most Trump topics have been started by his detractors, not by me, or Keith, or Krav, or others who support or defend him.  Three out of four "Trump" topics on the first page here are not by any of the truly glorious heroes of liberty and justice for all who you name, but by LG, Harvey, and BDSimon.  If only they'd taken advantage of Keith's "Ask me anything" thread. 

Elsewhere the aforementioned forum heroes are asked to respond to various questions dealing with Trump.  It's only polite to respond, yes? 

I did start one Trump thread trying to get folks here to contribute only objective facts in support of "Trump mostly good or mostly bad", and Kurros got it off to a good start, but shucks, it was not to be.  I then soon edited the title to remove the Trump reference, and it's sunk into the archives.  It was a failure on my part.  Will try again with a different topic to see if we can do better. 

I do enjoy arguing substantively and in good faith, and politics is very interesting and for me deeply woven into what I view as a spiritual battle for all of mankind.  I hate when we start arguing about arguing, or hurling personal critiques, and the thread gets derailed.  I don't understand that.  I don't understand the demonizing of Trump supporters.  Frankly it shocks and scares me a bit. 

Plus I'm off work nursing a potential root canal in #18 molar, replacement of a crown causing nerve to go nuts, I'm popping pills and praying the nerve will settle down.  At some times it feels like a railroad spike through my skull passing down through my left temple through the mandibles joint, through the afflicted tooth and into my chest on the left side.   It does finally seem to be improving, slowly.  Cut me some sympathy slack bruddah?  Hah!  It may be Trump's fault.  I was eating pecans and watching the news when my crown fractured.  It was yuge.  The sound was unbelievable.  They've never seen anything like it. 

Send me some love eh?






14

Language-Gamer

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Soren:

I understand the impression you and likely others have, but you'll be surprised if you take a look at my posts.  Most Trump topics have been started by his detractors, not by me, or Keith, or Krav, or others who support or defend him.  Three out of four "Trump" topics on the first page here are not by any of the truly glorious heroes of liberty and justice for all who you name, but by LG, Harvey, and BDSimon.  If only they'd taken advantage of Keith's "Ask me anything" thread. 

Elsewhere the aforementioned forum heroes are asked to respond to various questions dealing with Trump.  It's only polite to respond, yes? 

Please respond then.
I told her all about how we been livin' a lie

And that they love to see us all go to prison or die

Like, "Baby, look at how they show us on the TV screen"

But all she ever want me to do is unzip her jeans