General Discussion

Political Threads

Read 1112 times

kravarnik

  • ****
  • 6010 Posts
  • Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me!
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2020, 09:56:40 am »
You make no sense. So you’re saying The “free” education my kid has now is a slippery slope to prison? Are you saying my single payer Medicare leads to a gulag if I refuse to use it for a broken arm? Anticommunist rants may work to a MAGA crowd, but outside of that one needs to be more coherent.

It's kind of obvious the point I made in regards to free education was within the reality of Proletarian dictatorship: that is, after you literally have Proletarian dictatorship in place. Not prior to this, where you still have free democratic society, or free subjects of the Monarch....
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 10:04:08 am by kravarnik »
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

1

kravarnik

  • ****
  • 6010 Posts
  • Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me!
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2020, 10:00:54 am »
When condemning Marxist "dictatorship" has kravarnik read and understood his own quote:

"that this dictatorship, itself, constitutes no more than a transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society" ?

Dude, Marx used the Paris commune as an example of good Proletarian dictatorship. Do you know what the Paris commune did?

It established persecution upon the religious - you guessed it, our Catholic brethren had it very nice and dandy back then! Installed national guard, or alternatively "militia" to police everything and everyone. Establish policy where anti-socialistic/communistic media is banned, or any such public displays are banned - that is censorship.


I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. It seems you've been buying the "sugar" part of Marxism, but cannot be bothered to look at it fully, both good and bad.


You're praising a system that persecuted your Christian brethren. For crying out loud, get real mate. A Christian Marxist socialist/communist is the biggest oxymoron in existence.


You think this "transition to a classless society" was singing songs together; convincing non-communist with great patience, love and care; doing all that is possible to preserve all people and their authentic identity, regardless if it goes against Proletarian goals? Get real dude. You live in a bubble.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 10:07:24 am by kravarnik »
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

2

lapwing

  • ****
  • 8769 Posts
    • View Profile
    • Not my website but explains my choice of name and avatar
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2020, 04:12:04 pm »
So rather than admit you were refuted by your own quote you divert.

Well of course I don't approve of Marx's atheism (though he refers to  God more than you would expect in his writings)

But note that this is in the political threads section!

Marx has been accused of being too utopian so let's consider a comparison with the RCC sainted Sir Thomas More who wrote a book called Utopia

More had his own personal stocks for people he regarded as heretics and approved of the use of the rack and burning people to death - even stamping on the ashes of Thomas Bayfield.

Who did Marx ever torture with the rack or anything similar (cue diversion to Stalinism - except we're talking about Marx!)

"Those who live in glass houses ..."
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

3

searcherman

  • ***
  • 3111 Posts
  • Man makes religion, religion does not make man
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2020, 03:58:16 pm »
You make no sense. So you’re saying The “free” education my kid has now is a slippery slope to prison? Are you saying my single payer Medicare leads to a gulag if I refuse to use it for a broken arm? Anticommunist rants may work to a MAGA crowd, but outside of that one needs to be more coherent.

It's kind of obvious the point I made in regards to free education was within the reality of Proletarian dictatorship: that is, after you literally have Proletarian dictatorship in place. Not prior to this, where you still have free democratic society, or free subjects of the Monarch....

So any society that fulfills the need for universal education has that in its favor.
Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification.- K. Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

4

Ben Kissling

  • **
  • 77 Posts
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2020, 03:59:23 pm »
One way to assess these institutions is by way of a "scorecard," whereby people are given merit points based on their sex and color, and that these points are meant to balance things out in order to give everybody an equal opportunity. If we're using a 5-point scale, then we have to assume that a typical white male begins life with 1 point, whereas a woman of color begins life with 5 points. Depending on the wealth of the family you're born into, you may get deductions.

...

Let me explain… we have no control over where and when we are born, or which families we are born into. And yet, these factors tend to influence our lives in pretty dramatic ways.

Yeah, like since I'm a white straight male Christian American your proposed scorecard will affect my life in some pretty dramatic ways. How is that fair to me?

5

TheCross

  • ****
  • 5350 Posts
  • Follower of christ.
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2020, 10:06:22 am »
So rather than admit you were refuted by your own quote you divert.

Well of course I don't approve of Marx's atheism (though he refers to  God more than you would expect in his writings)

But note that this is in the political threads section!

Marx has been accused of being too utopian so let's consider a comparison with the RCC sainted Sir Thomas More who wrote a book called Utopia

More had his own personal stocks for people he regarded as heretics and approved of the use of the rack and burning people to death - even stamping on the ashes of Thomas Bayfield.

Who did Marx ever torture with the rack or anything similar (cue diversion to Stalinism - except we're talking about Marx!)

"Those who live in glass houses ..."

So because Hitler gave the orders but did not actually, physically kill anyone himself, would that not make him the root cause of the evils of the nazi empire?

Marx’s has inspired more chaos and destruction than anyone prior or after him, his manifesto is riddled with the blood of the innocent.
Gal 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

6

lapwing

  • ****
  • 8769 Posts
    • View Profile
    • Not my website but explains my choice of name and avatar
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2020, 06:04:09 pm »
Who did Marx directly order? (as in chain of command)
What were his orders?
Why not say the same about Voltaire or Thomas Paine?
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

7

TheCross

  • ****
  • 5350 Posts
  • Follower of christ.
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2020, 05:44:42 am »
Who did Marx directly order? (as in chain of command)
What were his orders?
Why not say the same about Voltaire or Thomas Paine?

Marx spoke of a revolt, usually revolts occure with destruction firmly attached to it.
Am I being asked to give you a list of what Marx wanted? Surely you know what this is already since you mentioned him several times?
Why do others matter, will that magically remove his words or the history of using them?
Gal 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

8

lapwing

  • ****
  • 8769 Posts
    • View Profile
    • Not my website but explains my choice of name and avatar
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2020, 02:26:56 pm »
Who did Marx directly order? (as in chain of command)
What were his orders?
Why not say the same about Voltaire or Thomas Paine?

Marx spoke of a revolt, usually revolts occure with destruction firmly attached to it.
Am I being asked to give you a list of what Marx wanted? Surely you know what this is already since you mentioned him several times?
Why do others matter, will that magically remove his words or the history of using them?

When did Marx personally encourage violence?
Why do you pick on Marx and ignore Voltaire and Paine?
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

9

TheCross

  • ****
  • 5350 Posts
  • Follower of christ.
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2020, 07:36:55 pm »
Who did Marx directly order? (as in chain of command)
What were his orders?
Why not say the same about Voltaire or Thomas Paine?

Marx spoke of a revolt, usually revolts occure with destruction firmly attached to it.
Am I being asked to give you a list of what Marx wanted? Surely you know what this is already since you mentioned him several times?
Why do others matter, will that magically remove his words or the history of using them?

When did Marx personally encourage violence?
Why do you pick on Marx and ignore Voltaire and Paine?

Remember Trotskys speech influenced by Voltaire? Me neither.
Gal 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

10

lapwing

  • ****
  • 8769 Posts
    • View Profile
    • Not my website but explains my choice of name and avatar
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2020, 04:19:10 am »
There's a school of thought that Voltaire influenced the French Revolution which involved some violence.
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

11

TheCross

  • ****
  • 5350 Posts
  • Follower of christ.
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2020, 06:13:24 am »
There's a school of thought that Voltaire influenced the French Revolution which involved some violence.

This is true but I fail to see the relevance of it in todays era, meanwhile the former is being pushed by individuals that actually can make it manifest into the global sector of political power.
Gal 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

12

lapwing

  • ****
  • 8769 Posts
    • View Profile
    • Not my website but explains my choice of name and avatar
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2020, 01:06:56 pm »
Well France is a republic not a monarchy, so Voltaire and the French Revolution is still relevant e.g. the Marseillaise!

"Aux armes citoyens! Formez vos bataillons!"
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

13

TheCross

  • ****
  • 5350 Posts
  • Follower of christ.
    • View Profile
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2020, 06:05:56 am »
Well France is a republic not a monarchy, so Voltaire and the French Revolution is still relevant e.g. the Marseillaise!

"Aux armes citoyens! Formez vos bataillons!"

Relevant to what? It’s not like the french kicked out socialism, and from what I gather they too have some communistic elements pushing their agenda.
Gal 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

14

lapwing

  • ****
  • 8769 Posts
    • View Profile
    • Not my website but explains my choice of name and avatar
Re: The Irony of the Social Justice War
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2020, 05:43:10 am »
Earlier you wrote "Marx spoke of a revolt, usually revolts occure (sic) with destruction firmly attached to it." without giving any references of course

I've pointed out that the writings of Voltaire and Thomas Paine are also associated with armed revolt, as was the Francoist Catholic Church in the Spanish Civil War. Franco overthrew, with violence, a democratically elected government. So why stop at Marx and not mention Voltaire, Paine and the Spanish RCC
(NB: At least some of the anti-church attacks prior to the war were false flag attacks by the Falangists)

To repeat the questions you are ignoring:

When did Marx personally encourage violence? (i.e. tell someone to commit an act of violence)
Why do you pick on Marx and ignore Voltaire and Paine?
and to add:
Would you have been a supporter of Franco in the Spanish Civil War?

Your last post was a non sequitur.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 05:46:31 am by lapwing »
For by one sacrifice Jesus has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified.

"Those who are still afraid of men have no fear of God, and those who have fear of God have ceased to be afraid of men"
"If the world refuses justice, the Christian will pursue mercy"
Dietrich Bonhoeffer