I am a Christian trying to explore the doctrine of the trinity and I have a question which I would like to ask you please. I do not have any philosophical or theological training. I am just a thinker looking for answers. I would be very grateful if you would have time to read my thoughts below and offer a response please. If you think I am way off track, please say so and be as frank as you like. Thank you very much in advance. Looking forward to hearing from you.MasihThe NT writers were not imbued with Aristotelian philosophy and didn't analyse things in terms of substance or ontology. Instead they thought about things in terms of function - for example, they thought of God as creator, sustainer, ruler, judge, etc. but didn't speculate about his abstract qualities such as the inner structure of His being or personality. Thus if one of the NT writers had been asked "Is Jesus God?", he probably would not have understood the question. To his mind it would have sounded as bizarre as it would do to a modern western person being asked "What does the colour red smell like?" This explains why the NT never attempted to define God in the same terms as the Nicene Creed or Chalcedonian Definition. The NT authors simply never asked themselves the sorts of questions the Nicene Creed attempted to answer. The theologians who formulated the Nicene Creed were deeply influenced by Aristotelian philosophy and so their minds naturally probed into the ontological relationship between God & Jesus, whereas the NT writers thought more about the functional relationship between God & Jesus (Sender/'Sent One', Commissioner/Messiah, Father/Son, etc.) The 4th century theologians who formulated the doctrine of the trinity made accurate inferences from the biblical data, but the doctrine of the trinity is not necessarily the best or ultimate definition of God - it is only one among several equally valid lenses through which God may be viewed, depending on the way your mind works.For background, this thought is in repsonse to a question posed by a biblical unitarian in a dbate about the trinity. He asked: Assuming the doctrine of the trinity is true and central to the Christian religion and that Jesus and his apostles believed it, why do you think they “held back” from teaching it to us in a clear/straightfoward/explicit way, as they did so many other doctrines they believed to be important? Examples of clear/straightforward/explicit teachings: God is one; God is holy; God is light; God is love; YHWH is God’s name; God created heaven and earth; Jesus died for our sins; God raised Jesus from the dead; Jesus sits at the right hand of God; Jesus is the Christ/Messiah and Son of God; the greatest commandments are Love God and Love neighbor. What I mean is, do you ever wonder why in 1 Cor.8:6 Paul didn’t say something like, “To us there is one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three persons, one essence.” If that is what Paul believed (and wanted us to believe), why do you think he said something different? Why did he speak of the Lord Jesus in this text as someone other than (or distinct from) the “one God”?Or how about… “You have heard it was said, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one', but I say to you, Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one being yet three persons”?Don't you find it surprising/odd (on any level) that the alleged “central” doctrine of Christianity was not plainly and continuously taught by its founder (Jesus) or the apostles?
I would find it funny that non-Trinitarians cannot identify what/who Jesus is without being contradictory if it were not so damning. You said it yourself "J<span style="font-size: 12pt;">esus is the only begotten God </span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">(Joh 1:18 NASB)<span> </span>“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">”You have a 0% biblical view on this.John 20:28 "My Lord and my God." Jesus did not rebuke him for worship or calling him God. Is Jesus Thomas' God but not ours?Jesus said that if you do not know him you do not have the love of the Father in you and you are not going to go to heaven.I hope you prayerfully re-consider your view.</span>
John 20:28, is that all Trinitarians can quote? Its not even synoptic gospel, its tainted with trinitarian view. You wont find any of that in the synoptics. Even if that is stated and not rebuked, it does not mean the Trinity is true. Jesus is a "god" but he is not "God" the father, and he was given all authority from the father, so he is not unlike God the Father, but he is the son god of the Father.
Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. The meaning is the literal consciousness of the Invisible God is present in the Lord.
Quote from: jayceeii on March 01, 2020, 07:48:25 amJesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. The meaning is the literal consciousness of the Invisible God is present in the Lord. So the logos.. aka.. the "Word" God created the world with his Word, The first thing he said was Genesis 1:3 "let there be light" In John 8:12 "i am the light of the world" Jesus was Gods first creation with in this world, on which it is imparted his consciousness. But it is not the trinity.