Quote from: shoyt on July 29, 2020, 02:10:53 pmWhat can you choose to believe?Does that mean that you believe that your belief that one cannot choose his belief is itself not-chosen, but somehow this was engraved in your mind? If so, doesn't that... make it irrational? Because it, then, isn't according to reason, but according to brutish mental violence done to your mind. For all you know, this belief of yours just "is", and there's no criterion for why it is there - it's just there, inside your mind for no logical reason.
What can you choose to believe?
Quote from: shoyt on July 29, 2020, 02:10:53 pmWhat can you choose to believe?Whether or not Epstein killed himself. ;-)
ChristianInvestigator,re: "Right, the original Pascal's Wager fails because it doesn't take into account additional live possibilities..."AActually the wager would be flawed right from the start even if there were only one possibility in consideration, because the wager is based on the idea that beliefs can be consciously chosen. But as has been touched upon, it is not possible to consciously choose to be things.
Quote from: rstrats on July 31, 2020, 12:42:32 pmChristianInvestigator,re: "Right, the original Pascal's Wager fails because it doesn't take into account additional live possibilities..."AActually the wager would be flawed right from the start even if there were only one possibility in consideration, because the wager is based on the idea that beliefs can be consciously chosen. But as has been touched upon, it is not possible to consciously choose to be things. We can rephrase the wager to be about actions rather than beliefs, which helps things a bit; even if you can't will yourself to believe God exists, it may be pragmatic for you to act as if He exists.
there's no consistent idea of what we mean by god. we can't even say we have a concept of god. nor does the existence of god entail we would, could, or should act one way or other.
I think this video, Betting on Infinity, which requires 16 minutes of your time, covers the ground quite nicely:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU
Anyone wish to have their intellect ‘dulled’?
An omniscient god would know your actions were the product of a mercenary bet rather than sincere belief.
He claims that, if you lose, you lose nothing. Integrity? Critical thought? Untold hours of empty ritual?
The gamble must reckon with an infinity of gods.
We can invest in things we can never know. But to do that is nonsensical. With the potential infinity of conflicting ideas it presents, there is no hope of formulating a best strategy.
The bet is, by definition, mercenary in seeking reward for an action taken.
The wager is most likely to be secured by the religion that promises the greatest rewards and punishments. I find this truly bizzare.
Does this mean you have a method from distinguishing one unjustifiable religion from another? If so, you have not explained it.
Are you equally prepared to receive different messages from others? You don't sound like you are.
I need to start by saying that is a pleasure to hold a conversation with somebody who accepts critical commentary so positively and who attempts to answer the post as a whole.
You seem to have accepted that the basis of the ‘classical’ wager is bogus. Yet you appear to think that you can formulate an updated version whereby you can use ‘tools’ – perhaps Decision Theory – to ensure that you have made the ‘right’ or ‘correct’ or ‘true’ choice.
What if, by failing to worship Satan, you end up in a form of hell? What if, by denying Ahura Mazda, you end up being diverted in the nasty direction at the Bridge of Separation? What if, by insufficient obeisance to Persephone, you end up in the realms of Hades? There may be an infinite range of possible ways you could lose by failing to win the wager. That is precisely why the video was entitled, Betting on Infinity. That is the ‘true’ cost of Pascal’s wager. It involves real risk. That is why it is bogus.
If you have discovered the miraculous ‘right’ choice then, on this earth at least, you will be surrounded by a sea of ignorance and Pascal’s wager will not apply to you because there can be no risk involved. Though how you could possibly know this is beyond me.