noncontingent

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Re: Why is it that most discussions here are scripture-free?
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2020, 10:36:04 am »
Okay, in your vocabulary we need to put "soul" through an NC translator where our use of the word for soul means "spirit" to you and your word for "soul" means materialistic self for us. The materialistic self (an NC-soul) dies at death, and a materialistic self (NC-soul) is resurrected at the Resurrection with the same soul (NC-spirit) as they had in life. Is that correct?

It's not my own vocabulary. It's what the scriptures show. Animals are living souls. Humans are living souls.

"For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity." Ec. 3:19

People confuse the animating force, God's spirit with the life it sustains. That spirit is the power that animates the  material and immaterial realm. It isn't the life of the person. The hope for humanity isn't an immortal soul that people argue aboueings, t what happens at death, but the resurrection or anastasis - a standing up again. Jesus was resurrected as a life-giving spirit, not a life-giving soul.

Spirit beings don't breathe. They aren't "breathers", they aren't nephesh, they have no "souls". Any human who may be resurrected to spirit live to replace the rebellious members of the divine council won't be souls either.


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Harvey

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Re: Why is it that most discussions here are scripture-free?
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2020, 10:42:49 am »
It's still a different vocabulary. In any case, regarding an NC-spirit doesvit have a signature that is unique to every human (i.e., it contains your memories, interests, personality, etc.) or does it just imbue humans with certain abilities (e.g., reasoning, mathematics, music, etc)?

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noncontingent

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Re: Why is it that most discussions here are scripture-free?
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2020, 10:52:18 am »
It's still a different vocabulary. In any case, regarding an NC-spirit doesvit have a signature that is unique to every human (i.e., it contains your memories, interests, personality, etc.) or does it just imbue humans with certain abilities (e.g., reasoning, mathematics, music, etc)?

That's the big question, and I have many. The bible uses the term "memorial tombs"  and all the patriarchs engaged in burial rituals w/bones which lead me to believe that they imagined there needed to be bones to reanimate or re-meat. Try as you might, you can see God telling them any where that they should do any of this. He let them do it, just like he lets us imagine all manner of things and speculate about all manner of things. They clearly believed that their resurrected self would be "them" with all their memories. But I wonder even now about the me that is here. I have little recollection of most of my life and most assuredly I imagine some events wrongly as happened the way they happened in my memory. If I were to die and be resurrected to the new earth of Revelation, I would likely experience it seemlessly as if I'd gone to sleep and woken up. The lazarus whom Jesus brought back from the dead recounted nothing, though he'd been dead. It was as if he was asleep, and in fact that's how Jesus described him when he was dead and I believe him. To me in order to do this, God would have to take a snapshot of "me" and  save it like I do a virtual server at work before I patch it. The snapshot is stored on disk. To me these memorial tombs are snapshots.

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Harvey

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Re: Why is it that most discussions here are scripture-free?
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2020, 11:05:25 am »
I think this snapshot is what most of us mean by souls.

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noncontingent

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Re: Why is it that most discussions here are scripture-free?
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2020, 11:14:22 am »
I think this snapshot is what most of us mean by souls.

I'll accept that. It isn't what the text of the says souls are, though.

It seems to me to open people up to things which are dangerous, like connections w/demons, aka bastard-spirits of the nephilim. People imagining they're contacting dead relatives (like "Samuel" and the witch of Endor) when they're just getting in touch with the same unclean spirits which Jesus cast into the swine. I remember reading about these pentecostals...https://apnews.com/f84ab54e3c26d75c803dd307c47a0913 and they are always invoking this spiritistic stuff and to me that's demonic.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 11:39:12 am by noncontingent »

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Harvey

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Re: Why is it that most discussions here are scripture-free?
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2020, 11:21:10 am »
I'll accept that. It isn't what the text of the says souls are, though.

Language changes over time especially between modern and ancient cultures having a completely different language.