Harvey

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Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« on: July 31, 2020, 11:32:02 am »
Okay, the Reformation is now 500+ years old and many of the doctrines that Luther posted on the church door are no longer an issue like they once were. Today the real controversy of the Church is between the conservatives and liberals. Why not end the divisions and like the NBA we reorganize. The churches should be under two churches: the Conservative Catholic Church and the Liberal Catholic Church? Let's vote and get this done.

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palewine

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2020, 03:15:09 pm »
Harvey, remind me, what denomination are you? (Or, what do you come closest to on doctrinal issues)

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2020, 03:57:55 pm »
Harvey, remind me, what denomination are you? (Or, what do you come closest to on doctrinal issues)

United Church of Christ (Congregationalist).

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TheCross

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2020, 06:13:36 pm »
Okay, the Reformation is now 500+ years old and many of the doctrines that Luther posted on the church door are no longer an issue like they once were. Today the real controversy of the Church is between the conservatives and liberals. Why not end the divisions and like the NBA we reorganize. The churches should be under two churches: the Conservative Catholic Church and the Liberal Catholic Church? Let's vote and get this done.

In my most humble opinion, currently, I would say that the eastern orthodox church is the only church that is immune to the strange requests of the world.

I sorely miss the structure of the big churches, it looks professional and it has that "aura" with it, just looking at christmas mass or easter mass like we do every year on the televison, it's something that I have longed for in the protestant version of the masses and such.

But still, there are doctrinal issues today that I can not overlook when it comes to the RCC, do I belive that it's an issue that can never be resolved? No, I think everything can be compromised with a healthy debate, but I do not see it happening in the near future.
Gal 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

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Yitro_137

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2020, 07:08:41 pm »
Luther's Bondage of the Will addressed the main theological issues, which involve free will and man's participation in salvation. Consensus my eye. And there's big divisions we don't hear about:   

"What is 'Catholicism'? Roman and Eastern Catholicism? Eastern Orthodoxy? Oriental Orthodoxy (Non-Chalcaedonianism)? Non-Ephesianism (Nestorianism)? All these churches broke off of the ancient historical chrstian church, but who broke off from who? Each claims to be the authentic original and that the others broke off. Roman (and Eastern) Catholicism is not self-evidently the original, since each and every one of these bodies refer to themselves as 'the holy Catholic Church.' Roman/Eastern Catholicism is certainly the one with the greatest numbers, but Athanasius pointed out that you can't decide what is truth based merely on the size of the membership" The Zionist Conspirator

See also Orthodocy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity by Walter Bauer.

Everyone (in the western religious community) agrees that at one time the Torah was the correct interface ('Judaism' was true), but no one can agree on what replaced it (or how to interpret it).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 07:14:37 pm by Yitro_137 »
If there will arise among you a prophet, and he gives you a sign or a wonder ... and he says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them," you shall not heed the words of that prophet.  (Deuteronomy 13)

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kravarnik

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2020, 01:02:21 am »
Okay, the Reformation is now 500+ years old and many of the doctrines that Luther posted on the church door are no longer an issue like they once were. Today the real controversy of the Church is between the conservatives and liberals. Why not end the divisions and like the NBA we reorganize. The churches should be under two churches: the Conservative Catholic Church and the Liberal Catholic Church? Let's vote and get this done.

Not too sure there are any grounds for reunification between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. If we consider any kind of meaningful unity as one in the spirit - in belief, that is, - then there isn't much between the two Churches to agree upon.
"And even if you crush my body and drain it 'til the last drop - you can never touch my spirit, you can never touch my soul. No matter how bleak or how hopeless, no matter how hard or how far - you can never break my conation. Tear the will apart from desire." Insomnium - Weather the storm

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belorg

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2020, 05:29:52 am »
Okay, the Reformation is now 500+ years old and many of the doctrines that Luther posted on the church door are no longer an issue like they once were. Today the real controversy of the Church is between the conservatives and liberals. Why not end the divisions and like the NBA we reorganize. The churches should be under two churches: the Conservative Catholic Church and the Liberal Catholic Church? Let's vote and get this done.

Do you believe in transubstantiation, Harvey?

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2020, 06:36:34 am »
Do you believe in transubstantiation, Harvey?

Do all Catholics believe that? I guess the RCC's doctrinal insistance or individual Protestant doctrinal insistance brings us back up to 500 years of the things that separate one denomination from another. Or, we might deal with the reality that even in the RCC (or individual Protestant denominations) that there are high level people in those churches who don't agree with the stated doctrines of that church. So, maybe it's time to focus on core Christian beliefs that existed early in the first four centuries and not the controversies that followed. If that can't happen then of course churches will go empty as the world becomes more secular.

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belorg

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2020, 09:36:06 am »
Do you believe in transubstantiation, Harvey?

Do all Catholics believe that? I guess the RCC's doctrinal insistance or individual Protestant doctrinal insistance brings us back up to 500 years of the things that separate one denomination from another. Or, we might deal with the reality that even in the RCC (or individual Protestant denominations) that there are high level people in those churches who don't agree with the stated doctrines of that church. So, maybe it's time to focus on core Christian beliefs that existed early in the first four centuries and not the controversies that followed. If that can't happen then of course churches will go empty as the world becomes more secular.

Of course, not all Catholics believe that, but it is considered a core Catholic belief.




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Fred

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2020, 10:30:38 am »
Do you believe in transubstantiation, Harvey?

Do all Catholics believe that? I guess the RCC's doctrinal insistance or individual Protestant doctrinal insistance brings us back up to 500 years of the things that separate one denomination from another. Or, we might deal with the reality that even in the RCC (or individual Protestant denominations) that there are high level people in those churches who don't agree with the stated doctrines of that church. So, maybe it's time to focus on core Christian beliefs that existed early in the first four centuries and not the controversies that followed. If that can't happen then of course churches will go empty as the world becomes more secular.
What's the problem?  You already believe in essentialism. The eucharist has the essence of Jesus' body and blood. There's support for it among the Apostolic fathers.

Eastern Orthodox believes in it. Martin Luther believed in it.  Anglicans have formally accepted it. Why deny it? 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 10:33:41 am by Fred »
Fred

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2020, 11:18:18 am »
Why deny it?

I don't know what it means.

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Fred

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2020, 02:14:40 pm »
Why deny it?

I don't know what it means.
Read this article from the Catholic Encyclopedia

If you don't buy it, then your proposal to consolidate can't get off the ground.  On the other hand, if it convinces you - you should join the Catholic Church (you have to pass a test, btw) and start working to convert your erstwhile brethren.
Fred

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2020, 04:30:28 pm »
Yeah, I don't really get that doctrine.

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belorg

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2020, 02:57:31 am »
Yeah, I don't really get that doctrine.


That's one of the reasons Protestants like you are not ready to consolidate with Roman Catholics (or vice-versa if you like)

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kurros

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2020, 07:10:13 am »
Why deny it?

I don't know what it means.
Read this article from the Catholic Encyclopedia

If you don't buy it, then your proposal to consolidate can't get off the ground.  On the other hand, if it convinces you - you should join the Catholic Church (you have to pass a test, btw) and start working to convert your erstwhile brethren.

Does *anyone* buy that nonsense? It is hard to see how any philosophically serious person could find it reasonable.