wonderer

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2020, 08:00:33 am »
Why deny it?

I don't know what it means.
Read this article from the Catholic Encyclopedia

If you don't buy it, then your proposal to consolidate can't get off the ground.  On the other hand, if it convinces you - you should join the Catholic Church (you have to pass a test, btw) and start working to convert your erstwhile brethren.

Does *anyone* buy that nonsense? It is hard to see how any philosophically serious person could find it reasonable.

Probably few, other than those indoctrinated into such twisted thinking from a very young age.
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Language-Gamer

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2020, 08:40:34 am »
Why deny it?

I don't know what it means.
Read this article from the Catholic Encyclopedia

If you don't buy it, then your proposal to consolidate can't get off the ground.  On the other hand, if it convinces you - you should join the Catholic Church (you have to pass a test, btw) and start working to convert your erstwhile brethren.

Does *anyone* buy that nonsense? It is hard to see how any philosophically serious person could find it reasonable.

Probably few, other than those indoctrinated into such twisted thinking from a very young age.

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belorg

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2020, 12:53:14 pm »
Why deny it?

I don't know what it means.
Read this article from the Catholic Encyclopedia

If you don't buy it, then your proposal to consolidate can't get off the ground.  On the other hand, if it convinces you - you should join the Catholic Church (you have to pass a test, btw) and start working to convert your erstwhile brethren.

Does *anyone* buy that nonsense? It is hard to see how any philosophically serious person could find it reasonable.

Alex Pruss and Edward Feser buy it, and they seem to be philosophically serious people.

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kurros

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2020, 01:03:56 pm »
Why deny it?

I don't know what it means.
Read this article from the Catholic Encyclopedia

If you don't buy it, then your proposal to consolidate can't get off the ground.  On the other hand, if it convinces you - you should join the Catholic Church (you have to pass a test, btw) and start working to convert your erstwhile brethren.

Does *anyone* buy that nonsense? It is hard to see how any philosophically serious person could find it reasonable.

Alex Pruss and Edward Feser buy it, and they seem to be philosophically serious people.

Do they have a serious defense of it anywhere that a non-catholic would not find completely ridiculous?

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belorg

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2020, 01:10:06 pm »
Why deny it?

I don't know what it means.
Read this article from the Catholic Encyclopedia

If you don't buy it, then your proposal to consolidate can't get off the ground.  On the other hand, if it convinces you - you should join the Catholic Church (you have to pass a test, btw) and start working to convert your erstwhile brethren.

Does *anyone* buy that nonsense? It is hard to see how any philosophically serious person could find it reasonable.

Alex Pruss and Edward Feser buy it, and they seem to be philosophically serious people.

Do they have a serious defense of it anywhere that a non-catholic would not find completely ridiculous?

Well, you might try this

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2019/10/transubstantiation-and-hylemorphism.html

or

http://alexanderpruss.com/Eucharist.pdf

I am a non-catholic and, while I don't think Feser and Pruss are right, I don't find their view ridiculous.

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2020, 01:26:43 pm »
That's one of the reasons Protestants like you are not ready to consolidate with Roman Catholics (or vice-versa if you like)

I would lean toward a reduced set of doctrines rather than try to get people to commit to the same ole' failed atrempts of trying to reconcile beliefs.

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Fred

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2020, 03:20:28 pm »
That's one of the reasons Protestants like you are not ready to consolidate with Roman Catholics (or vice-versa if you like)

I would lean toward a reduced set of doctrines rather than try to get people to commit to the same ole' failed atrempts of trying to reconcile beliefs.
What Catholic doctrines could you embrace?  I'm just wondering what you had in mind when you wrote your Op.
Fred

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lapwing

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2020, 03:39:47 pm »
So we seem to have the choice of one denomination in which there are differences of belief in aspects of theology
or many denominations with differences of belief in aspects of theology between them
Yet God knows who are His independent of denominational labels.

Isn't this a superficial labelling exercise seeking to exchange doctrinal differences in many churches for doctrinal differences in one church.
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Ben Kissling

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2020, 03:51:58 pm »
I heartily endorse this ridiculous and impossible proposal. Then all the conservatives could sit back and laugh while the Liberal Catholic Church dwindles into nothing.

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2020, 04:09:29 pm »
What Catholic doctrines could you embrace?  I'm just wondering what you had in mind when you wrote your Op.

A liberal [or consevative] version of the Nicene or Apostles' creed for the liberal [conservative] church along with some basic traditions of the Church.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 04:24:02 pm by Harvey »

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2020, 04:27:44 pm »
I heartily endorse this ridiculous and impossible proposal. Then all the conservatives could sit back and laugh while the Liberal Catholic Church dwindles into nothing.

It's because fundamentalism appeals to human ignorance that it is temporarily able to starve off the effects of secularism. What needs to happen is that Christians must start teaching liberal doctrines to their children with fundamentalist intensity to fight off secularism successfully.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 11:14:18 pm by Harvey »

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Fred

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2020, 10:27:43 pm »
What Catholic doctrines could you embrace?  I'm just wondering what you had in mind when you wrote your Op.

A liberal [or consevative] version of the Nicene or Apostles' creed for the liberal [conservative] church along with some basic traditions of the Church.
That doesn't sound like you're willing to embrace ANY of the dogma.   When you referred to "Catholic" - you seemed to have meant thatin the generic sense of "catholic", and not  the "Roman" Catholic Church? Regardless, I thought you gave weight to majority opinion.  Over 50% of Christians worldwide are Roman Catholic, so its surprising you haven't explored the possibility they got it right.  From the Roman Catholic perspective, Protestants are following heretics.  What if they're right?
Fred

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2020, 11:13:15 pm »
...you seemed to have meant thatin the generic sense of "catholic", and not  the "Roman" Catholic Church?

Correct.

Quote from: Fred
Regardless, I thought you gave weight to majority opinion.  Over 50% of Christians worldwide are Roman Catholic, so its surprising you haven't explored the possibility they got it right.  From the Roman Catholic perspective, Protestants are following heretics.  What if they're right?

I'm only viewing the situation in terms of longterm trends. As Christianity and other major religions lose adherents, maybe we ought to consider consolidation of the churches as a way to keep the ember burning. We know in the "last days" that faith would be challenged, and as we move toward a future where a lot will occur in the next few centuries, the Church doesn't need division. Rather, it needs unity. If everyone just wants to stick with their own doctrines and beliefs then that's their perogative.

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belorg

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2020, 03:15:42 am »
That's one of the reasons Protestants like you are not ready to consolidate with Roman Catholics (or vice-versa if you like)

I would lean toward a reduced set of doctrines rather than try to get people to commit to the same ole' failed atrempts of trying to reconcile beliefs.

The problem is that there is no Catholic Church without doctrines and dogma. One of the reasons why Protestants are called protestants is because they protest some of those doctrines.

You want unity instead of division, but that's exactly what the Catholic Church claims it wants. But according to the Catholic Church, this unity did exist until some people started protesting. That is, according to the CC, the origin of division.

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Harvey

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Re: Should Protestants consolidate with Roman Catholics?
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2020, 07:55:45 am »
The problem is that there is no Catholic Church without doctrines and dogma. One of the reasons why Protestants are called protestants is because they protest some of those doctrines.

You want unity instead of division, but that's exactly what the Catholic Church claims it wants. But according to the Catholic Church, this unity did exist until some people started protesting. That is, according to the CC, the origin of division.

You make a good point. Perhaps "going simple" is itself a Protestant approach that is unreasonable to ask the Roman Catholic Chiurch or even the Orthodox churches to accept.