Tom Paine

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2020, 11:28:58 am »
Daniel 8 has a prophecy that the Jews will be exonerated 2300 years after the time Alexander the Great defeats the persians by the river. That's what Daniel chapter 8 is about. Daniel refers to years as days--be careful if you're not familiar with the language of this apocalyptic literature (which the Jews understood in the Rabbinic literature long before they even understood what this prophecy was about)--2300 "evenings and mornings" refers to 2300 passovers.

When did Alexander the Great defeat the Persian? There were three key battles, the first and most important battle, where Alexander the Great himself participated in is called the Battle of Granicus which took place by the RIVER of Granicus. And the river is right there is Daniel chapter 8. That is when the Greeks defeated Darius the Persian. This took place in the year 334 BCE in the late spring.

2300 years after the year 334 BCE (make sure you also count the year '0' as one of the years)--count forward and you will find yourself in the late spring of  1967!

For those who don't know, 1967 is the year the Jews gained control of all of Jerusalem (AKA the Temple mount), and they have finally been exonerated after many centuries of persistent and repetitive persecution by the world.

How did people understand this passage in Daniel 100 years ago? The answer is they didn't. The tried to make sense of it, but it was impossible. What does a river have to do with Alexander the Great and the Persians, what is going on here? Many Rabbis expressed the core message that many of these prophecies--we couldn't understand how they will unfold, but we just know they will--and there will be a signpost when it happens that we have lived through that event.

The only question we ask is--what are the odds? Why did it say 2300 years (very weird number of years, why 300 after the 2000) and not 2600, 1200, 500, 1000, why 2300 years? And why did it say after Greeks defeats Persian by the river, when it could've said literally anything else? Again, I say, what are the odds?

Source: http://www.sixdaywar.co.uk/Daniel8.pdf
 
If you want to read Daniel 8 for yourself https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16491/jewish/Chapter-8.htm

God keeps his promises. Even if he made them to people in the BCE times.

From a Christian site.

Quote
c. For two thousand three hundred days: Literally, Daniel heard a holy one say “two thousand three hundredmornings and evenings.” Bible students debate if this means 2,300 days or 1,150 days. 2,300 days is almost seven years.

i. Either understanding is possible, but it is more likely that this means 2,300 days. The date when the temple was cleansed is well established as December 25, 165 B.C. If we count back 2,300 days from then, we come to the year when Antiochus Epiphanes began his persecution in earnest (171 B.C.).

ii. However, if we take it to mean 1,150 days it can refer to the time the temple was actually desecrated. Philip Newell makes this case: “For a duration of time during which 2300 daily sacrifices would ordinarily have been offered, one at evening and one in the morning, as specified in Exodus 29:38-43. Since there are two of these daily, the actual time period involved is 1150 days, or slightly over three years. This, in fact, was the time of the Maccabean tribulation, 168-165 B.C., at the end of which the sanctuary was ‘cleansed’ by Judas Maccabeus in his restoration of the evening and morning sacrifices (2 Maccabees 10:1-5).”

iii. This passage has been a favorite springboard for elaborate and fanciful prophetic interpretations. A popular and tragic interpretation of this passage took one year for every day, and William Miller used 2,300 “year-days” to calculate that Jesus would return in 1844 (2,300 years after Cyrus issued the decree to rebuild the temple). His movement ended up giving birth to the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and several other movements.

iv. We can know that Miller and other “year-day” theories are wrong because this passage was fulfilled before the time of Jesus. Jesus recognized that the temple was properly cleansed and rededicated when He attended the Feast of Dedication, commemorating the cleansing and rededication of the temple after the desecration brought by Antiochus Epiphanes (John 10:22).

v. Adam Clarke’s comments show what a hold the year-date approach had to many of his time: “Though literally it be two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, yet I think the prophetic day should be understood here, as in other parts of this prophet, and must signify so many years. If we date these years from the vision of the he-goat, (Alexander’s invading Asia), this was A.M. 3670, B.C. 334; and two thousand three hundred years from that time will reach to A.D. 1966 , or one hundred and forty-one years from the present A.D. 1825.” There is no foundation for Clarke’s approach, and it has led many others off into serious error.

d. Then the sanctuary shall be cleansed: This amazingly specific prophecy was written some 350 years before the time of Antiochus Epiphanes. Great prophetic fulfillment like this demonstrates that God not only knows the future, He also guides the future.



Note, they reckon 2,300 year to 1966, not 1967.  I'm not sure that is correct though as a dating calculator reckoned 2,300 years as ending in 1967. However, the battle of Granicus would have happened after the passover, so there would have only been 2,299 passovers between the two events. Maybe thats nit picking, but more importantly the period is supposed to end with the sanctuary being cleansed and a return of sacrifices, but that did not happen in 1967 despite Israel reclaiming control of Jerusalem and, in fact, the Dome of the Rock mosque still stands in place of the "sanctuary". That makes the idea that "the prophecy" was fulfilled in 1967 untenable.

I think the interpretation given in the quote of the 2,300 days (not years) and what that represents is probably correct. What they don't get right is that it was not an actual prophecy written by the historical Daniel centuries before the fact but a piece of Maccabean apocalyptic propaganda that contains no actual prophecies at all,  just a somewhat erroneous recounting of history already known to the writers and what little bit of actual prognostication it attempts actually goes wrong.

That's how I would explain this "stunning Biblical prophecy"

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BlackHole

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2020, 05:49:45 pm »
Let me address the most common points of contention raised so far:

(1) How do we know that 2300 "evenings and mornings" refers to 2300 passovers?

The Hebrew phrase translated as “evenings and mornings” in verse 14, is a reference to the
 evening-until-morning timeframe of Passover (see Exodus 12:6-10), so 2300 “evenings and mornings” means 2300 Passovers.

Recognize that even in the rabbinic literature before we even knew Israel would exist in 1967, many understood it as passovers.

However, some here have argued that it could be translated as "days". Sure it is "possible", However, it still remains significant that an equally plausible interpretation of this verse leads us to the year 1967 which is a very significant year when it comes to the Children of Israel. It's the year they finally captured the Temple mount.

(2) Why do we count the year '0' if it is not a real year?

I think there was either a misunderstanding or a problem with the way I explained it. You do not count the year 0. I invite you to do your own calculation using excel (it would take 5 minutes, put in -334 and then use the formula "A1+1" all the way down. Make sure you don't count the year 0. I did it here to show you what I got:

https://imgur.com/a/tL9RSpN

Alexander the Great first moved against Persia in either May or early June of 334 BCE. Passover, which was celebrated on 6 April, 334 BCE, had already occurred before the battle began, and thus the Passover of 333 BCE is the first one to be included in the counting of the 2300 Passovers that determine the duration of the time span set forth in Daniel 8:14. I did this in the above image (click the link)

(3)  Daniel 8 is not specifically mentioning capture of Jerusalem

If you read Daniel 8 (link in OP), you'll notice the whole thing is quite poetic and vague. However, the non-poetic aspects of this chapter inform us that 2300 passovers after Greece defeats Persia by the river, something significant will happen to the Children of Israel--"they will be exonerated" or it can also be translated as "will be victorious"--not very clear what this is specifically referencing because its vague, but it is referencing something major with respect to the Jews. And what we see is that indeed exactly 2300 passovers after this event, a major historical event happened to the Jews.

(4) God could have done better and impressed us with more

This is a very silly argument. Of course God could've simple proven his existence to all of us, the question is why do you think he wanted to do this? This is just you engaging in divine psychology. It is possible that God wanted to give us only slight pointers of his existence sufficiently clear so that those open to him will accept God, yet sufficiently vague such that those whose hearts are closed to him reject God. How do you know this is not the case? We simply don't. So don't appeal to divine psychology when you simply can't know.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 06:02:58 pm by BlackHole »

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kurros

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2020, 05:37:16 am »
(4) God could have done better and impressed us with more

This is a very silly argument. Of course God could've simple proven his existence to all of us, the question is why do you think he wanted to do this? This is just you engaging in divine psychology. It is possible that God wanted to give us only slight pointers of his existence sufficiently clear so that those open to him will accept God, yet sufficiently vague such that those whose hearts are closed to him reject God. How do you know this is not the case? We simply don't. So don't appeal to divine psychology when you simply can't know.

So... you agree that this prophecy is highly unimpressive then?

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ArtD

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2020, 07:48:15 am »
The OP goes about it all wrong.
The existence of any accurate prophecy might be a coincidence.
If the Bible has any false prophecy then it can't be the Word of God.
ScienceAsNaturalTheology.org

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BlackHole

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2020, 03:14:53 pm »
(4) God could have done better and impressed us with more

This is a very silly argument. Of course God could've simple proven his existence to all of us, the question is why do you think he wanted to do this? This is just you engaging in divine psychology. It is possible that God wanted to give us only slight pointers of his existence sufficiently clear so that those open to him will accept God, yet sufficiently vague such that those whose hearts are closed to him reject God. How do you know this is not the case? We simply don't. So don't appeal to divine psychology when you simply can't know.

So... you agree that this prophecy is highly unimpressive then?

No, I agree that God could've given more impressive prophecies, but it doesn't mean Daniel 8 isn't massively impressive.

This is quite significant in my eyes.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 03:58:24 pm by BlackHole »

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Jabberwock

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2020, 04:57:33 am »
Whoever made the prophecy, did not predict that the use of a single word ('years' instead of 'mornings and evenings') would dramatically decrease its ambiguity.
First learn to spell "ironic discussion"...

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BlackHole

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2020, 06:54:30 pm »
...and pick out a pretty random battle, but otherwise - just awesome!

The prophecy references a specific battle in which a Greece wins against Persia by the river. So you must pick out a specific battle with such qualities; how is that "random"? There's only a handful of such battles...and even when we take them all into account, what are the odds that 2300 years after any such battle occuring in the late spring would lead exactly to the year 1967 (in the late spring!)--the most significant positive Jewish event since ancient history (capture of the temple mount).

Quote
Whoever made the prophecy, did not predict that the use of a single word ('years' instead of 'mornings and evenings') would dramatically decrease its ambiguity.

This is a non-sequitir. It does not follow. Whoever made that prophecy could've wanted some level of ambiguity in there so that those with a heart of stone can reject it yet allows sufficient evidence to allow those open to accept him. This is not a new concept...

If someone puts a gun to your head and tells you "say you love me, or I'll kill you" and you say "I love you", those words are not meaningful. They're only meaningful when you have a perceived opportunity to reject that relationship with God. There must be an area in the world where either condition can seem plausible to you (believe in God or reject God). If there was no inclination to disbelieve (or do what is wrong), then wicked people with a heart made of stone would be compelled to believe in God. There has to be enough information in the world where those who are loyal or have an open heart to God can see the truth and pursue a relationship with God, but there has to be sufficient ambiguity in the world that enables those with a heart of stone to reject God and sufficient clarity such that those open to him would arrive at that probabilistic conclusion that he exists.

There is sufficient clarity in Daniel 8...In fact, this alone is a very significant piece of evidence for the existence of God. I cannot see a way out of this one unless you have so much faith that this is just a fluke. I do not have that much faith.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 08:11:38 pm by BlackHole »

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kasmit25

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2020, 09:53:26 pm »
Well, you've made some pretty convenient assumptions:

1) That the 2300 evenings and mornings represents 2300 years from Alexander's victory (assumption of units of time for the countdown and when that countdown began), this gets to be a big mess when you realize that there has been lost years on our calendars, leap years, restructuring of calendars, etc. I could state that the first woman president will be elected in 5 hours then adjust what I say the meaning of my prediction was in retrospect after her election to be that each hour actually meant 2 hours and that clock only began ticking 10 hrs before the votes got counted. You can always mess with the numbers to make them fit, hope you see what I'm saying.

2) That Daniel's prophecies were written before Alexander the Great lived. In fact, its believed Daniel was written well over a hundred years after Alexander's death. The end times the prophecy was supposed to be about never came to pass, the kings of Greece and Persia are long gone and we are still here to debate about the accuracy of these prophecies...

3) This is a biggy. You assume Daniel was a real person. Most scholars doubt the man even existed at all, more likely he is a made up character by some author down the line after the historical events in which the story attempts to claim it has foretold. His existence and authorship is so unlikely because the his accounts of history are too inaccurate to have been given by someone who lived through the events he claims to have. Maybe Daniel was real but had dimensia, I don't know. The fact is theres no evidence for Daniel outside the Bible and a large amount of errors within the book that leads historians to believe he didn't exist.

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palewine

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2020, 02:46:05 am »
In your scenario with the man putting a gun to your head, the man directly, personally, and unmistakably interacts with you. There's no ambiguity. But this is not analogous to God's hiddenness.

Let me give you a better analogy. The person with the gun sits back from afar, where you cannot perceive him, with a sniper rifle. He does not approach or speak to you directly, but instead leaves various clues as to his existence.  But these clues can be interpreted in different ways, and none is wholly decisive.  Furthermore, he has the whole situation set up to where he will pull the trigger and shoot you depending on if you correctly interpret the clues.

* * *

I will also take this opportunity to point out that a meaningful relationship always has a direct, personal, and unmistakable identification of the other person. So if God wanted to have a meaningful, non-coercive relationship with us, he would reveal himself directly and unmistakably to each of us BUT not threaten us with hell and punishment if we choose to turn our back on him.

Interestingly, a good relationship has both the qualities of 1) being non-hidden (direct, personal, unmistakable), and 2) not threatening force and retribution if spurned. But it appears that God (at least in traditional Christianity) is the exact opposite of both those qualities: 1) hidden, and often ambiguous, and 2) he threatens us with eternal torment if spurned.

Apparently, if God wants a relationship with us he's going about it all wrong!

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BlackHole

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2020, 03:02:20 am »
In your scenario with the man putting a gun to your head, the man directly, personally, and unmistakably interacts with you. There's no ambiguity. But this is not analogous to God's hiddenness.

Let me give you a better analogy. The person with the gun sits back from afar, where you cannot perceive him, with a sniper rifle. He does not approach or speak to you directly, but instead leaves various clues as to his existence.  But these clues can be interpreted in different ways, and none is wholly decisive.  Furthermore, he has the whole situation set up to where he will pull the trigger and shoot you depending on if you correctly interpret the clues.

* * *

I will also take this opportunity to point out that a meaningful relationship always has a direct, personal, and unmistakable identification of the other person. So if God wanted to have a meaningful, non-coercive relationship with us, he would reveal himself directly and unmistakably to each of us BUT not threaten us with hell and punishment if we choose to turn our back on him.

Interestingly, a good relationship has both the qualities of 1) being non-hidden (direct, personal, unmistakable), and 2) not threatening force and retribution if spurned. But it appears that God (at least in traditional Christianity) is the exact opposite of both those qualities: 1) hidden, and often ambiguous, and 2) he threatens us with eternal torment if spurned.

Apparently, if God wants a relationship with us he's going about it all wrong!

This ignores the faith aspect and its importance to religion. Your scenario is one where faith isn't even a factor.

This isn't about a relationship, this is about whether we seek a relationship with God in the face of some uncertainty (not whether God comes to us with the relationship in the face of certainty). As such, being hidden but not so absent is the best way--in the face of some ambiguity, will you still seek faith in God--or will you seek faith in other things?

Threatening force/retribution is a way to nudge us and bias us towards seeking God. If nothing is threatened and we just die, I know that personally I would not care if God exists or not. So threats should also be in there if God actually wants us to care about this.

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Lucian

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2020, 05:12:30 am »
Daniel 8 has a prophecy that the Jews will be exonerated 2300 years after the time Alexander the Great defeats the persians by the river. That's what Daniel chapter 8 is about. Daniel refers to years as days--be careful if you're not familiar with the language of this apocalyptic literature (which the Jews understood in the Rabbinic literature long before they even understood what this prophecy was about)--2300 "evenings and mornings" refers to 2300 passovers.

When did Alexander the Great defeat the Persian? There were three key battles, the first and most important battle, where Alexander the Great himself participated in is called the Battle of Granicus which took place by the RIVER of Granicus. And the river is right there is Daniel chapter 8. That is when the Greeks defeated Darius the Persian. This took place in the year 334 BCE in the late spring.

2300 years after the year 334 BCE (make sure you also count the year '0' as one of the years)--count forward and you will find yourself in the late spring of  1967!

For those who don't know, 1967 is the year the Jews gained control of all of Jerusalem (AKA the Temple mount), and they have finally been exonerated after many centuries of persistent and repetitive persecution by the world.

How did people understand this passage in Daniel 100 years ago? The answer is they didn't. The tried to make sense of it, but it was impossible. What does a river have to do with Alexander the Great and the Persians, what is going on here? Many Rabbis expressed the core message that many of these prophecies--we couldn't understand how they will unfold, but we just know they will--and there will be a signpost when it happens that we have lived through that event.

The only question we ask is--what are the odds? Why did it say 2300 years (very weird number of years, why 300 after the 2000) and not 2600, 1200, 500, 1000, why 2300 years? And why did it say after Greeks defeats Persian by the river, when it could've said literally anything else? Again, I say, what are the odds?

Source: http://www.sixdaywar.co.uk/Daniel8.pdf
 
If you want to read Daniel 8 for yourself https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16491/jewish/Chapter-8.htm

God keeps his promises. Even if he made them to people in the BCE times.

How do you know Granicus is being referred to?

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nswoll

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2020, 09:26:07 am »
Until you provide evidence of someone prior to 1967 having this interpretation this is just a retcon. It's easy to make prophecies fit after they happen.

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2020, 10:36:03 am »
This is a non-sequitir. It does not follow. Whoever made that prophecy could've wanted some level of ambiguity in there so that those with a heart of stone can reject it yet allows sufficient evidence to allow those open to accept him. This is not a new concept...

If someone puts a gun to your head and tells you "say you love me, or I'll kill you" and you say "I love you", those words are not meaningful. They're only meaningful when you have a perceived opportunity to reject that relationship with God. There must be an area in the world where either condition can seem plausible to you (believe in God or reject God). If there was no inclination to disbelieve (or do what is wrong), then wicked people with a heart made of stone would be compelled to believe in God. There has to be enough information in the world where those who are loyal or have an open heart to God can see the truth and pursue a relationship with God, but there has to be sufficient ambiguity in the world that enables those with a heart of stone to reject God and sufficient clarity such that those open to him would arrive at that probabilistic conclusion that he exists.


I've always been interested in the hiddeness argument (it might be an even better Atheist argument than the problem of evil, because the stakes are higher), so I'd like to probe your defense scenario a little further...

What causes people to become "wicked people with a heart of stone" or "loyal and open-hearted"?

Perhaps every person is born one way or the other; some are destined by God to be loyal, and others destined to be wicked; but that doesn't make a lot of sense, since it sounds like God is "forcing" a relationship with certain people, like in your gun analogy. And if he's going to do tat for a few, why not with everyone?

Perhaps every person is born "neutral" towards God, and their life experiences either lead them to accept God or lead them to reject, gaining a stone heart. What life experiences are we talking about? What friends the person hangs out with, their childhood, the evidence they study, the church they went to. Most of these factors are external to the person, beyond their control. Hence, whether a person goes to heaven or hell depends on outside factors, beyond their control. Something about that seems deeply unfair; if external factors affect one's salvation, then why doesn't God change the external factors to lead everyone to Him?

If external factors have no affect on the state of one's heart, perhaps the factors are all internal. People who are inherently prideful, selfish, wicked, etc. will push away God and gain a stone heart, but people who are inherently humble, subservient, loving, devoted will be loyal and open-hearted to God. But if every person is born neutral, how did they end up with internal pride or humility? We've gone all the way through the options, and we've gotten nowhere.

How would you answer my original question? "What causes people to become 'Wicked with a heart of stone' or 'loyal and open-hearted'?"
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OrthodoxJew

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2020, 11:47:11 pm »
Daniel 8 has a prophecy that the Jews will be exonerated 2300 years after the time Alexander the Great defeats the persians by the river. That's what Daniel chapter 8 is about. Daniel refers to years as days--be careful if you're not familiar with the language of this apocalyptic literature (which the Jews understood in the Rabbinic literature long before they even understood what this prophecy was about)--2300 "evenings and mornings" refers to 2300 passovers.

When did Alexander the Great defeat the Persian? There were three key battles, the first and most important battle, where Alexander the Great himself participated in is called the Battle of Granicus which took place by the RIVER of Granicus. And the river is right there is Daniel chapter 8. That is when the Greeks defeated Darius the Persian. This took place in the year 334 BCE in the late spring.

2300 years after the year 334 BCE (make sure you also count the year '0' as one of the years)--count forward and you will find yourself in the late spring of  1967!

For those who don't know, 1967 is the year the Jews gained control of all of Jerusalem (AKA the Temple mount), and they have finally been exonerated after many centuries of persistent and repetitive persecution by the world.

How did people understand this passage in Daniel 100 years ago? The answer is they didn't. The tried to make sense of it, but it was impossible. What does a river have to do with Alexander the Great and the Persians, what is going on here? Many Rabbis expressed the core message that many of these prophecies--we couldn't understand how they will unfold, but we just know they will--and there will be a signpost when it happens that we have lived through that event.

The only question we ask is--what are the odds? Why did it say 2300 years (very weird number of years, why 300 after the 2000) and not 2600, 1200, 500, 1000, why 2300 years? And why did it say after Greeks defeats Persian by the river, when it could've said literally anything else? Again, I say, what are the odds?

Source: http://www.sixdaywar.co.uk/Daniel8.pdf
 
If you want to read Daniel 8 for yourself https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16491/jewish/Chapter-8.htm

God keeps his promises. Even if he made them to people in the BCE times.
I think your analysis is correct and reasonable but there is too much room for the skeptic to make a fuss, stick with Deut 28.

What is your religious persuasion?
שמע ישראל ה אלוקינו ה אחד
"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."

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Tom Paine

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Re: Atheists: Explain this stunning biblical prophecy!
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2020, 02:39:53 pm »
Let me address the most common points of contention raised so far:

(1) How do we know that 2300 "evenings and mornings" refers to 2300 passovers?

The Hebrew phrase translated as “evenings and mornings” in verse 14, is a reference to the
 evening-until-morning timeframe of Passover (see Exodus 12:6-10), so 2300 “evenings and mornings” means 2300 Passovers.

Recognize that even in the rabbinic literature before we even knew Israel would exist in 1967, many understood it as passovers.

However, some here have argued that it could be translated as "days". Sure it is "possible", However, it still remains significant that an equally plausible interpretation of this verse leads us to the year 1967 which is a very significant year when it comes to the Children of Israel. It's the year they finally captured the Temple mount.

(2) Why do we count the year '0' if it is not a real year?

I think there was either a misunderstanding or a problem with the way I explained it. You do not count the year 0. I invite you to do your own calculation using excel (it would take 5 minutes, put in -334 and then use the formula "A1+1" all the way down. Make sure you don't count the year 0. I did it here to show you what I got:

https://imgur.com/a/tL9RSpN

Alexander the Great first moved against Persia in either May or early June of 334 BCE. Passover, which was celebrated on 6 April, 334 BCE, had already occurred before the battle began, and thus the Passover of 333 BCE is the first one to be included in the counting of the 2300 Passovers that determine the duration of the time span set forth in Daniel 8:14. I did this in the above image (click the link)

(3)  Daniel 8 is not specifically mentioning capture of Jerusalem

If you read Daniel 8 (link in OP), you'll notice the whole thing is quite poetic and vague. However, the non-poetic aspects of this chapter inform us that 2300 passovers after Greece defeats Persia by the river, something significant will happen to the Children of Israel--"they will be exonerated" or it can also be translated as "will be victorious"--not very clear what this is specifically referencing because its vague, but it is referencing something major with respect to the Jews. And what we see is that indeed exactly 2300 passovers after this event, a major historical event happened to the Jews.

(4) God could have done better and impressed us with more

This is a very silly argument. Of course God could've simple proven his existence to all of us, the question is why do you think he wanted to do this? This is just you engaging in divine psychology. It is possible that God wanted to give us only slight pointers of his existence sufficiently clear so that those open to him will accept God, yet sufficiently vague such that those whose hearts are closed to him reject God. How do you know this is not the case? We simply don't. So don't appeal to divine psychology when you simply can't know.

You've ignored my point that the sanctuary was not "cleansed" in 1967 and so you cannot say the prophecy was fulfilled.