Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”(Matthew 17:19-20)
Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him. (Mark 11:23)
Okay, but that mountains don't move in response to people having faith or not doubting in their hearts; they just move, over billions of years, no matter what humans do.science is, imo, just a coincidence.
Quote from: ChristianInvestigator on October 27, 2020, 09:03:23 amOkay, but that mountains don't move in response to people having faith or not doubting in their hearts; they just move, over billions of years, no matter what humans do.science is, imo, just a coincidence.This is what is being denied as true by Jesus.
Care to elaborate? Are you trying to say that mountains are literally moving over billions of years as a response to human faith?
I once read a book written by a Christian woman who an accident had doomed to a wheelchair for the rest of her life.She took Jesus at his word, prayed to be healed, wasn't healed but didn't let mere facts damage her faith.What Jesus said about the power of prayer is false.
Only if it is God's will.
God’s will ultimately trumps prayer requests. But, if that request is in line with the will of God, then faith is required to bring it to fruition.
If it is God's will, it will be done no matter whether someone believes anything at all or not.
Quote from: Spero on October 27, 2020, 12:52:04 pmGod’s will ultimately trumps prayer requests. But, if that request is in line with the will of God, then faith is required to bring it to fruition.If it is God's will, it will be done no matter whether someone believes anything at all or not.
I lost my best friend to a car wreck about a year and a half ago. We did just about everything together which included going to church. About two weeks after he died, I was driving down the street our church is on. I was stopped at a red light about a couple of blocks down from the church. I was in a pretty deep depression those two weeks and feeling particularly bad that day. While stopped at the light, I prayed in all sincerity for God to give me a sign that my friend was alive with Him and that I would see him again one day. His favorite hymn was “Be Thou My Vision,” and I had the song in my head for almost the whole day. Just as I’m approaching the church, the bells started ringing out that hymn, which I never heard them do before. I pulled over, sobbed in happiness while listening to the whole thing, and then went on my way. From that moment on, the depression was gone. No doubt, you’ll think all this merely coincidental...but if it wasn’t: Did God ordain from all eternity that I be there at that exact time and place, asking Him what I asked in faith and sincerity just before the bells played the hymn, in accordance with His will from the beginning of time; or did God simply answer my prayer on the spot, miraculously ringing the bells Himself? I believe it to be the former. This is how I believe prayer works, and it’s purpose is to draw us closer to Him...which it did. From my biblical perspective, this is the correct way to attempt to understand it. As Harvey said, “..Part of God's causal sequence..”