bskeptic

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How Far Would You Go to Remove Trump from Office?
« on: October 29, 2020, 06:52:58 pm »
Ami Horowitz video:

https://youtu.be/aZ_eNALIcI8

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wonderer

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Re: How Far Would You Go to Remove Trump from Office?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2020, 07:20:00 pm »
Not so hard to recognize that we evolved within the branching out of the apes, now is it?
"The world needed that of us, to maintain—by our example, by our very existence—a world that would keep learning and questioning, that would remain free in thought, inquiry, and word." - Alice Dreger

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Spero

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Re: How Far Would You Go to Remove Trump from Office?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2020, 08:28:00 pm »
Wonderer, as one who is on the liberal side, do you find it deeply concerning what’s happening with respect to the media?  Do you even perceive a problem here at all?  I’m not asking these questions in a demeaning way - it may sound like I am, but I’m not. I’m genuinely curious about your take on it.   I realize you may see an even bigger problem with Trump..I get it. But Trump’s time as president will end. The media has no term limit; you can’t vote it out. It’s an institution essential to a free society, and it’s credibility rests on fair reporting. If the media were this slanted toward the right, I’d be just as concerned as I am now. What’s your take on this.
Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall.

- Proverbs 16:18

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wonderer

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Re: How Far Would You Go to Remove Trump from Office?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2020, 10:02:42 pm »
Wonderer, as one who is on the liberal side, do you find it deeply concerning what’s happening with respect to the media?  Do you even perceive a problem here at all?  I’m not asking these questions in a demeaning way - it may sound like I am, but I’m not. I’m genuinely curious about your take on it.   I realize you may see an even bigger problem with Trump..I get it. But Trump’s time as president will end. The media has no term limit; you can’t vote it out. It’s an institution essential to a free society, and it’s credibility rests on fair reporting. If the media were this slanted toward the right, I’d be just as concerned as I am now. What’s your take on this.

Yes, it is concerning to me.  To get a sense of my view, I recommend this article:

https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2020/10/28/liberals-explain-why-liberals-tired-of-wokeness-shouldnt-vote-for-trump/

It doesn't directly address your question, but it gets at what I see as relevant core issues.  With regard to the media specifically, there are many media sources which are as slanted to the right as others are slanted to the left.  I'm not as concerned about that situation as I am about the destructiveness of Trump.  I'm certainly not concerned with the illiberal left getting excessive power with a moderate like Biden as POTUS, or for that matter Harris.  My preference was Buttigieg, but so it goes.

There's a lot of 'red scare' stuff going on in right wing media that overblows such fear of the left for the sake of the right's  political power, IMO. 
"The world needed that of us, to maintain—by our example, by our very existence—a world that would keep learning and questioning, that would remain free in thought, inquiry, and word." - Alice Dreger

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noncontingent

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Re: How Far Would You Go to Remove Trump from Office?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2020, 06:23:24 am »
"Drown a puppy and zap your nads for Biden"


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wonderer

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Re: How Far Would You Go to Remove Trump from Office?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2020, 06:57:30 pm »
Wonderer, as one who is on the liberal side, do you find it deeply concerning what’s happening with respect to the media?  Do you even perceive a problem here at all?  I’m not asking these questions in a demeaning way - it may sound like I am, but I’m not. I’m genuinely curious about your take on it.   I realize you may see an even bigger problem with Trump..I get it. But Trump’s time as president will end. The media has no term limit; you can’t vote it out. It’s an institution essential to a free society, and it’s credibility rests on fair reporting. If the media were this slanted toward the right, I’d be just as concerned as I am now. What’s your take on this.

Thoughts?
"The world needed that of us, to maintain—by our example, by our very existence—a world that would keep learning and questioning, that would remain free in thought, inquiry, and word." - Alice Dreger

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Spero

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Re: How Far Would You Go to Remove Trump from Office?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2020, 07:23:11 pm »
Wonderer, as one who is on the liberal side, do you find it deeply concerning what’s happening with respect to the media?  Do you even perceive a problem here at all?  I’m not asking these questions in a demeaning way - it may sound like I am, but I’m not. I’m genuinely curious about your take on it.   I realize you may see an even bigger problem with Trump..I get it. But Trump’s time as president will end. The media has no term limit; you can’t vote it out. It’s an institution essential to a free society, and it’s credibility rests on fair reporting. If the media were this slanted toward the right, I’d be just as concerned as I am now. What’s your take on this.

Thoughts?
Sorry, meant to respond yesterday and got sidetracked.

I read the opinions you linked. I hear them, but respectfully disagree with just about all of them. I guess I could dissect every one and tell you point by point why I disagree...but that would take way more time than I have. I’ll focus on one I’ve heard a lot from some of my left leaning friends I think is accurate, but only to a point: “Things will go back to normal when Trump is out.” My answer is “Yes”...and “No.” The Woke will initially be appeased and the violence/noise will die down, but the movement - being the force that it is now - will continue to grow, fester and infiltrate its way into the educational system, the entertainment industry, social media, the Press and the Party. All this until the next Republican takes office, and then the blowback will be worse than the first. I don’t even think it’ll make a difference if the POTUS is as mild mannered as a lamb.

While I don’t believe Biden subscribes to most this nonsense, IMO, he hasn’t the energy and fortitude to withstand the pressure that’s built up behind these movements given his age and general demeanor; I believe Harris will eventually take the reigns, but she strikes me as one who strictly blows in the direction the political winds of her party are blowing. From what I’ve witnessed thus far, I’m not trusting Democratic leadership to make a stand the way it should be made. When I hear cries to disband/defund law enforcement, attack police, white people are all innately racist, etc, etc, etc and the list goes on, I expect the verbal response to be swift, strong and unequivocal from all party leadership on the Federal, State and Local levels - because these views are loud, frequent and insane on a magnitude I never dreamed could possibly be reached. Instead, what I’m seeing from the majority of the leadership is indifference and absolution, with some even siding with the extremists.

I guess we just have to assess for ourselves which threat we think is the greatest and go from there. The leadership and media complacency on this, as I see it, is what disturbs me the most. Maybe..just maybe this changes when Trump isn’t a factor anymore, but I’m not willing to take that chance right now. Until I see evidence of a more robust response to the lunacy, the Democrats aren’t getting my vote. But, even more important than this, we also need to address why the Woke lunacy got this pervasive, and also why forms of White Supremacy have been making a slight comeback...particularly over the last five years.
Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall.

- Proverbs 16:18

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GRWelsh

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Re: How Far Would You Go to Remove Trump from Office?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2020, 02:08:41 pm »
Ami found a few liberals who think like Trump.  The only difference is one of position, since he's the one in power -- and clearly thinks doing whatever is necessary to stay in power is acceptable, fair election be damned.

It's true that there are corrupt people on both sides, but they shouldn't be in power.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 02:10:28 pm by GRWelsh »
The morning sun rose and burned off the ghosts; it seems they were nothing but shapes in the fog.